An Evil is Discovered

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Not for the first time in recent days Yavanna moves through the world oblivious to the beauty around her.  No more does she take delight in the delicate curl of a new leaf or the graceful sway of the tall grass as the air is stirred with her passing, for Yavanna's heart is heavy and her eyes are blind to her surroundings. Today she walks beside Manwë, Lord of the West and his wind Ainóme as they journey to Mandos.  Mandos, where she will find her Aulë.  "Aulë!" her heart cries out for him.  Only now it is not a cry of joyous love as it had been in the past.  Now it is a cry of pain, for her heart has been wounded deeply.  

And so she walks, her heart and thoughts in turmoil, blind to that which is around her.  She does not notice how the tall grasses seem to whisper sadly and wilt at her passing.  She does not see how  the leaves of the mighty trees blacken and curl before falling sorrowfully to the ground, like falling tears, sometimes a few shed here and there, while others seem to gush in heartbreak. 

 The Wind Ainóme walks besides the Lady Yavanna, feeling the sadness of the Valle's heart, while trying at the same time to stay near her beloved Lord Manwë, whose heart, she could feel, was also heavy. Would a song lighten their hearts. Can it help this, she thinks.


Manwë walks with Yavanna and his wind Ainóme deep in thought. He sees the world much differently now  with Yavanna's presence as the trees motion as she passes. The land is much richer to him now than it feels when he walks alone. Yet there is a missing part of his soul. He misses his herald Eonwë.   He questions the judgment he made before but now has a clear purpose to find him.  Even as his thoughts of Eonwë and the Maker are foremost on his mind, he feels the world with one of it's creators.

Softly, the Wind Ainóme begins to sing:

Does it have to be a sad song?
Isn't it a shame?
The ones I try the hardest with
Never stay the same.

And I just can't decide if it's good or bad.
The times I hold the dearest are the times we never had.

We've yet to have,
We've yet to have,
And isn't it a sad song.

So I guess it's a sad song,
And it's a shame, oh it's a shame,
'Cause I think we made a love song
And I know you feel the same.

So I guess it's a sad song,
And it's a shame,
'Cause I think we made a love song
And I know you feel the same.

But the song does not help the heart of Yavanna. The gentle Wind grows silent for a bit, choosing instead to send her Beloved Lord and the dear Lady caressing thoughts.

Yavanna finds herself at times surging ahead of even the long strides of the Lord of the West, such is her urgency to find an answer to the pain in her heart.  At other times she realises she is lagging behind the other two, her footsteps leaden and dragging for there is a part of her that dreads what answer she may hear.  Once before she has known such pain at the hands of her beloved Aulë.  What did it mean that he had spoken so harshly to her again?  Had he hardened his heart against her and turned from her?  She lifts her head and stares down the road ahead as though in search of answers, but there is only an empty road.

Watchful, Ainóme starts and trips as she sees the Lord Manwë, almost like a child of the Children, walking, heavy of heart.  Casting a loving gaze upon the Breath of Arda, she opens her wings. The forest is full of danger, but Lady Yavanna is with them. Softly, she whispers a more cheerful song:

The Road goes ever on and on
Out from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
Let others follow it who can!
Let them a journey new begin,
But I at last with weary feet
Will turn towards the lighted inn,
My evening-rest and sleep to meet.

But no one speaks, and she is worried for her Lord Manwë. She spies a flower on the ground, gives a little jump over to it, plucks it up and offers it to Yavanna, looking for a little smile, hoping to ease her sadness.

Yavanna sighs heavily as she walks.  Valimar now is fading behind them in the distance.  She glances back over her shoulder at the receding  rooftops. She does not even remember traversing the town.  She shrugs apathetically, turning her eyes again to the road ahead.  Again her feet hurry her forward.  She must see Aulë soon!  She must!  Again her emotions swung to an urgent need to seek an answer.  Blindly, she strides on.

Manwë thinks, "What could be on the mind of Eonwë for him to go to Mandos?" Walking with Yavanna and Ainóme has cleared his thoughts somewhat, enough to speculate. Eonwë's words that day were not his own. Why had he, the Lord of the West, not overseen this evil? He would soon find out as each step takes him closer to the nature of the evil. It must be confronted and defeated. He dearly wishes Eonwë back at his side.

Ainóme walks in front of her Lord, so it is she who suddenly sees something on the ground, through the branches of a tree. Her song is stopped  immediately. Approaching slowly,  she makes a discovery: a body on the ground. She screams out, "My Lord, COME!"

Manwë is stirred from his thoughts of Eonwë when Ainóme screams. He quickly strides forward, looking towards Yavanna as he does.  Yavanna looks up dazedly at the sudden cry.  She glances around her and sees Ainóme standing by something in some dead grass beside a high wall.  Warily she approaches.

Ainóme, looking at the body on the ground, moves near and tries to touch it.  As she turns the body, she screams louder.  It is elven!  Her heart breaks. How is this possible?

Horrified, Manwë looks upon the dead elf before him. A feeling of sorrow comes over him. He remembers a report of a dead elf delivered by the king of the Vanyar, but he did not feel the same as he does now. Moreover, he feels evil nearby. Leaning over the elf, he whispers, "Do you not sense it, the Evil?"

Yavanna hurries forward and stops beside the Lord of the West. Standing so near she can feel his sorrow. Now as she tears her gaze from the prostrate form before them and gazes into Manwë's eyes she can see this tragedy is moving him deeply. She blinks rapidly as she hears the word 'Evil' and turns her head to look about her. He was right. The air felt heavy and oppressive and.. something else, as well. Her eyes took in the heavy wall nearby, 'You are right," she murmurs, "and whatever it is, it's coming from beyond that wall."

Sadly, the Wind whispers, "Not even a song can bring to life this elf. He is now with Mandos, but the pain, the pain is deep."

Uncharacteristically inquisitive and eager, Manwë looks at the wall. "Why... has this wall always been here?" They were some distance from the town. "Perhaps we should investigate what lies behind this wall?"

Yavanna narrows her eyes thoughtfully and examines the wall. She takes a few steps forward and puts her hand upon it, palm downward, against the stonework and opens her senses to it.  She gasps and steps back hurriedly, rubbing her hand upon her cloak as she does so. "Aulë!", she manages to force the word past a throat suddenly closed and tight, "Aulë built this wall!"

"Aulë?  But why? This is even more cause to stop and investigate." He looks up at the wall and reaches towards the top to climb on top of it.

Silently, the Wind Ainóme listens to them as they speak, unable to find anything to add.  Yavanna glances up at the worried face of the Wind.  Normally so cheerful and bright, even she was now subdued and worried.  "Wait! Wait, my Lord, Let me come with you!" she calls as she sees Manwë clambering up the rough stonework.

Manwë reaches the top of the wall and with barely a glance down over the other side, kneels down and offers a hand to Yavanna, his face concerned as he does so. "I think it is best if you look at this with me."

Yavanna  reaches up to accept Manwë's helping hand. For one who had spent time clambering among the branches of might oaks the wall was no challenge to her really.  Once on the top she turns to survey that which lay beyond it.   She staggers a little and clutches onto Manwë for support, such was the depth of  darkness she felt emanating from the clusters of dark flowers that lay before her.  Unable to tear her eyes away from them she gasps, 'These.. these are not of my making!" She turns to Manwë as she continues, "There is an evilness in them, a powerful darkness.  I.. I think we know what killed yon elf."  She glances down at the anxious Ainóme below. "Do not come up here Ainóme. It is not safe for you."

Down below,  the Wind obeys Yavanna, though she feels her Lord has need of her.

"Not of your making?" Manwë asks as he steadies Yavanna on the wall. The evil emanating from the flowers is intense.  He looks at the elf below.  He could almost feel for him: he must have suffered a painful death.  As he turns back toward the flowers he glances upon the wall. "If they are not of your making, then perhaps they are a creation of Aulë's?"

Yavanna shakes her head slowly, deeply troubled, "I.. I cannot say if Aulë made them.  They are too evil for me to risk reaching out to sense whose energies made them.  I just know he made the wall, whether to hide them, or contain them, I know not."

Manwë looks back at the flowers.  As he does so he recalls the incident when the Maker crafted a new race of Children hidden from his brethren's eyes, then tried to hide them from the face of Illuvatar "If he did create these flowers, it would not be the first time he has succeeded, but the evil..." he pauses a moment in thought "even so, you are certain he built the wall around them, so he is involved somehow. I say he has a lot of explaining to do" Manwë finishes sternly.

> An Evil Destroyed    

Beginning of an End

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AelKennyr Rhiano

"Thrityh 'sohna," the killianen jabbuk barked at him, his arms ready, poised, yet his sword still in his scabbard. "Attack again."

Skin so dark, it had a midnight blue cast to it, eyes like two red hot coals, the killanen jabbuk, the swords master, saunters across the expanse of the uneven and broken stone of the practice arena.  Nimros' emerald eyes are drawn to the whorls and faded lines of a massive tattoo that spanned the whole of the drow's chest.  Fingers callused from years of fighting and training others to use the weapons of blood and death flexed and relaxed as the drow drops his hands to either side of him.  In broken Quenya, the drow says, “In battle no rest. In drow no mercy. You fight like taught but tire like child.” He turns his heads and spits out a glob of blood.

“Usstan g'jahallus dos, yibin nest,” Nimros hisses at him in the drow’s own tongue. The young Teleri’s lips curl into a sneer as he tosses down his practice sword on the ground. His pale skin caught the weak smoky light of a torch that the swords master had lit, casting a bare finger of illumination, hungrily gobbled up by the immense darkness. A tattoo covered half of Nimros’ chest, around his eyes and over both arms. The pain of it as the Matron inked his skin aroused in him a dizzy passion, a hungry bestial need that throbbed low and tight in parts of his body and hung heavy and burning in his loins as he lay with her that night. His green eyes narrow to slits as he regards the drow before him. “I tire of beating you, old weak man,” he adds in the Common speech.

Hissing, the older drow male turned his body away from the elf, as though walking away. The pale elf boy has transformed into an adult under his watchful eye, the muscles of the Teleri’s upper body chiseled and well-defined. No longer has he the awkwardness of a child, a dalhar, but the poise and the sureness of a budding warrior. Fueled by a raw desire for the things only Lloth can bring a male, Nimros took every blow delivered without complaint. Injury upon injury the drow inflicted upon the young Teleri; cracked ribs, broken bones, body bloody and beaten, still he came back the next day. The small red eyes of the swords master watched while Nimros struggled to master the bautha z'hin, the “dodge and walk.”

Slowly, beneath the burning gaze of the drow, the rapid and painful blows he would loose upon the elf if he failed to perform up to his peak even for one moment, Nimros mastered the skill of dodging blows, or maneuvering about his foe, rushing in and attacking and rushing back out with little damage to himself. And not only that, but he began to pick up bits of drow phrases, wordings, and began to teach the drow his own tongue, which felt too light upon the tongue. The sounds too soft and bleating to the swords master’s ears.

The drow had been commanded by the Matron to instruct Nimros. “Zao ukta naut ulu el queelas,” she had commanded. “Teach him not to die quickly.” And she ran her long, tapered, finely sharpened nails across his chest, thin lines of blood tracking where she had touched him.  Then she raised her other hand to his face and clawed his left cheek. “Fail me, old slave,” she purred, her voice low and husky, and he felt his body stir with desire even as she continued her threat, “and I will bind you with your own entrails while I peel the flesh off you.”  He had not failed, but he also had not stopped with teaching the boy elf the rudiments of attack.  He had a student burning with thirst, and he quenched it.

With a speed that Nimros had yet to being to approach, the swords master draws his long sword and turning the blade just right, he swings back toward Nimros. With the grace of a Vanya dancer, he moves into and closes with the young elf and with his other hand; it is easy for him to grasp the younger male by the throat even as he uses the flat of the blade to beat Nimros, raining blows upon hard blows on his sides, his belly, and his back.  Nimros never has a chance to bend down for the discarded blade, and so suddenly has the drow moved, his eyes has barely widen before he feels the thick, scarred hand close about his throat.  His own hands scrabble at the one at his throat, push at the hand wielding the sword. He flails and gives choked, half strangled sounds of pain and rage as relentlessly, the swords master beats him. 

Finally, the swords master releases Nimros, watching him slump to the floor. Already the pale skin is reddened and turning shades of blue, brown and black, thin lines of red, oozing blood where the edge of the blade has nicked his flesh.  With a tilt of his head, his blood red eyes boring into Nimros’, the drow tells him, “Huthin draeval Usstan zhal harventh tir biu har, darthirii.”

Huddled on the floor, Nimros wraps his arms around his stomach, groaning helplessly. “Next time I shall cut off an ear, elf,” a distance part of his mind translates. Gasping for air, he draws in a shallow breath. “Why not this time?” he asks, his voice thick with hate for the drow at this moment. “Answer me! Why do you spare me?” He looks up, green eyes filled with self-loathing for being so defeated, mouth twisted in hatred, body curled in pain.

From his greater height, for he was tall for his kind, the male drow answers with one word. “Lloth.”

Nimros starts to open his mouth, but his next question would never be asked, never be answered. For in that moment, there came a sound he had never heard before, the sound of the very bowels of the earth being ripped asunder. In the distance there arise shouts and curses and screams. The ground shakes beneath them. The drow pauses for only a moment, and then bends down and with sure hands pulls Nimros roughly to his feet.  “Come,” he commands and pulls the elf after him. 

“Come?  Come, where? Why? What is happening?” gasps Nimros, wheeling drunkenly upon his fear, his body screaming at him from a dozen deep bruises and shallow cuts.

Without a backward glance, the drow pulls and pushes at the elf. All about them, the ground, buckles and shifts before the rock floor cracks, Above them the rock ceiling screams and wisps of sandy rock debris betrays where the roof over them was cracking and breaking apart. “Earthquake?” Nimros yells over the sound of the rending of earth.

“Death,” replies the drow, snatching and shoving him. “If you want life, come.”

Nimros obeyed.

A Decision is Made

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The Lord of the West meets with Yavanna in his hall on the bright morning.  Manwë had met with Yavanna on the previous day and discussed the situation about the Maker and Eonwë. Now he stands resolutely with his promise he made yesterday. He wanted to hear Eonwë's side of the story.

Yavanna's eyes feel dry and gritty as she sat now in Manwë's throne room.  The beauty and elegance of her surroundings were lost upon her for she could not recall when last her body had rested well.  Despite every comfort being available for her here in her room at Manwë's palace, still she had not slept well, kept awake and restless by the swirling of her troubled thoughts.  Now she sat with the Lord of the West as they prepared to discuss the odd behavior of her spouse and Manwë's herald.  She lifts a hand to squeeze the bridge of her nose to ease some of the tension there before looking up at Manwë.  Beside him stood the loyal Ilmare, and she smiles a tired smile at the Maia before addressing the one whom they both revere.  "What shall we do, my Lord?  Have you thought on what is best to do?"

Ilmarë waits upon her lord and the Lady Yavanna. She stands quietly, saying nothing, but listening to everything they say with close attention. She prays silently to Eru that they may all have wisdom today.

Thoughts go through Manwë's head. The recent time has worn heavily on the Lord of the West. He foresaw none of this coming. The possible betrayal of the Maker, one of their own, remains a shock to him. His loss of foresight worries him even further. But then, his judgment upon Eonwë may even be false. As time passes, it seems that he, the Lord of the West, acted incorrectly. He has to know the truth, from Eonwë and soon. "Yes, I have thought about this, and I want to speak to my Herald, Eonwë, now."

Yavanna asks, "Then shall we send for him?"

Manwe nods. "Yes, please send for him," he replies nervously.

Ilmarë bows her head, "Would you have me go, my lord? To find my brother."

Manwe looks at the Maia before him and nods. "Go, please find your brother, and bring him before me." He bows his head slightly as if dismissing her to search.

 Ilmarë bows and goes in search of the Herald.  Yavanna watches Varda's handmaiden depart upon her errand, her eyes thoughtful.  Finally as the doors close behind her retreating figure, Yavanna turns her eyes back to the one seated nearby, noting the lines of worry that crease his brow.  Of them all, Manwë had always shouldered the most responsibility, she had always thought, but always he had handled this with assurance and wisdom.  Now though, he seemed careworn and.. uncertain, almost.   Gently she reaches out a hand to him, resting it on his forearm, "These troubles, they tug at your heart, do they not, my Lord?"

Manwë turns to Yavanna seated beside him and takes her hand, nodding. "These troubles do tug at my heart, while perhaps they should not." He did not share all of his thoughts, that he feels like he is losing the gift of foresight. He looks up with a stronger look. "I hope that he does come."

Yavanna

Yavanna's smile is gentle as she squeezes his hand encouragingly,  "You would not be who you are if you did not let your heart have its say from time to time.  The best of leaders must have compassion for those about them.  Eonwë has ever been by your side as.. as Aulë has been by mine."  She pauses a moment and looks down to where her hand holds his, and her voice is soft with her pain when she continues. "We cannot stop our hearts being tugged.  Let us hope that there will be some explanation for the madness that seems to have overtaken those we love."

As soon as she is out of the lord's chambers, Ilmarë breaks into a run. At last, Lord Manwë wants to speak with her brother! Perhaps they will finally discover what has gone wrong. Perhaps they will even reconcile. She hopes so.

She takes the steps up to Eonwë's front door two at a time. She hammers on the door. "Brother! Brother! Lord Manwë wishes to speak with you! Come quickly!" But instead of the greeting she expects, there is silence. "Brother? ...Eonwë?" She pushes open the door to the house that was at one time like her own home. All is still. The front room is empty, so she slips into the central chamber, looking about for signs of life. She hears no footfall, no voice. "Eonwë?"

There is no sign of Eonwë in his chambers at all. Might he be at the training grounds? Sometimes he goes there to clear his mind when he has been too long in the confines of his home, worrying over his troubles. Not wishing to delay further by going to seek for him there in person, she sends out her thought, searching for his mind among those of the other Ainur. His mind is easy to distinguish--a bright flame even when he is distressed.

She frowns. She can feel nothing of him near at hand. How is that possible?  She looks quickly into each of the other rooms of Eonwë's home, in case she has missed something. As she does so, she calls to him on the plane of thought, but receives no reply.

Now Ilmarë begins to be worried. She must tell her lord. Where is Eonwë, now that he is needed?

Manwë nods at Yavanna's words. "There must be some explanation for this madness. But why have I failed to see this coming before it affects those who have served with love? We must get to the bottom of this and soon"

Yavanna draws back a little at his words, her brow furrowed. "You did not see this, my Lord?  No indication at all?"

Manwe shakes his head slowly. "Something clouds my vision, but that does not mean we cannot act. Whomever has caused this madness to appear among those we love will have a lot to answer for," he says strongly.

Deep in thought at his words, Yavanna rakes her fingers through her hair, hair that seemed always windblown and restless, carrying the scent of spring blossoms, soft moss and clean earth upon its strands.  Yes, he was right, she realizes.  There was no need to foresee in order to take action.  They were Valar, after all, the creations of Eru and not without some power and strength.  Thoughtfully she nods her head, tucking a wayward strand of that restless hair behind an ear as she looks again at Manwë and nods. "You are right.  They will have a lot to answer for."  Impatiently she looks toward the door.  Surely the Herald, when he comes, will have some answer.

Ilmarë

Following Yavanna's gaze to the door, Manwë waits in anticipation at the return of his herald. Perhaps soon, more will be revealed by his words.

There are quick footfalls in the hall, and then Ilmarë enters, alone and somewhat out of breath. She crosses to the foot of the throne and drops to one knee. "My lord!" she gasps. "He is not here!"

Manwë's eyes widen at Ilmare's return and message. Standing, he asks "not there? Where is he then?" In his words there is a tone of dismay and worry. Where could he be? he thinks.

Yavanna's eyes turn the hue of deep shade in a summer forest as she hears the Maia's words before they narrow thoughtfully.  "My Lord," she begins, "I think I may know the answer to that."

Too out of breath to speak, Ilmarë merely fixes her eyes on the Lady Yavanna, hoping that she has an answer. Manwë turns to Yavanna waits intently for her to continue.

Yavanna's cheeks flush a delicate shade of pink as she explains, "When I encountered Eonwë upon the path to Taniquetil and we spoke, I exhorted him to do all that he could to make you believe his words.  It occurs to me now that where I intended for him to speak with you, he may instead have gone in search of proof of his veracity."  She pauses and lifts her eyes to those of her Lord as she says, "I think he may have gone to seek my Aulë.  I think he has gone to Mandos."

Ilmarë looks up sharply. She takes a deep breath. "Mandos. He would. I think he would."

Manwë looks over Yavanna after she finishes speaking.  While another time he may have inquired further of why she had not brought this to him before, but things have changed. He has changed. Today is not the day to sit on his high seat and sort these events out mentally.  It is a day to act. He takes the hand of Yavanna and Ilmare. "Today, we go to Mandos. I understand now this is something that should have been done before now. It is time to bring our loved ones home."

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Return to the Blue Mountains

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Cinnamon Raymaker and Lihan Taifun

Elwing blinks repeatedly as the snowflakes batter at her eyelids. The temperature has not improved with the distance eastward she has flown. Turning occasionally and glancing behind to make sure the giant swan still follows her, she peers downwards, trying to sight the landmarks she has come to rely on. Arien's vessel must surely be almost at the end of its journey and still no sight of the gap between mountains has appeared on the horizon.

Aztryd crouches against the swan's neck, trying unsuccessfully to shelter from the freezing wind. Nole's straps hold her securely in the saddle.  As long as the swan's strong wings continue their steady beat, all Aztryd need to do, and all she can do, is endure the passing hours.

Hoping Aztryd is comfortable enough, Elwing calls out to Alqua encouragingly, asking her to keep beating her wings to help speed the little mother and her daughter homeward. Then she turns and concentrates fully on finding the Blue Mountains as quickly as she can. Elwing looks around as the snow abates just a little, and there is a gap in the cloud allowing a sparkle of light to appear. Ilol
ts reflection off the waves ahead seems to be guiding them to their goal. Suddenly, she sees the shadowy mountains ahead and calls out in delight. Elwing gently banks around, calling to Alqua to do the same.

Aztryd can feel little Nizl squirming and shifting petulantly inside her own backpack.  It is hard for a little one that age to be confined for so long, but there was no other way to carry her in safety. Elwing's cry is lost to Aztryd over the rush of wind, but Alqua hears, and dips her strong wings in a graceful bank, following Elwing.  Aztryd gasps at the change in direction, clinging tightly to the saddle as her numb backside slips sideways.

Elwing smiles inwardly as she sees Alqua following her, racing over the waves towards their final destination. As the miles speed past, Elwing thinks back to the warmth and friendship she found with Aztryd's gammy and the delicious food she prepared, and Elwing's belly starts to growl in anticipation.

Aztryd 's belly is hollow by now, and she is sure Nizl's tiny belly is complaining even more loudly than her little lungs.  Yet they are dwarves, and they push on, frozen mile after mile.  Perhaps, Aztryd hopes, this change of direction is a sign that their destination is drawing near, for they have flown in a straight line all the day.  The thought of journey's end, of putting her feet on solid ground, and seeing her old home and her family again, brings a smile to her exhausted face.

Elwing calls to Alqua to prepare to land on the mountainside just ahead. The cover provided by the snow will ensure her safety until her presence can be explained. Gliding carefully towards her intended goal, she concentrates on transforming at just the right moment. In a shimmer of stars, Elwing returns to her slender elven form, the freezing cold snow and icy wind hitting her like a solid barrier and taking her breath away. Exhaustedly, she lands in deep soft snow and crawls into the shelter of the small copse of trees ahead.

The mountainside does not register in Aztryd's numbed brain until it nearly fills the view before them.  Alqua spreads her wings wide, to slow herself, tipping a surprised Aztryd back in the saddle.  Alqua plows into the soft snow, skidding to a stop near to where Elwing landed.  Aztryd sits for a few breaths, glad to have finally arrived, not yet ready to force her stiff muscles to move.

Elwing looks to the sky to see Alqua slowing herself before landing  and then watches as the swan lands safely close by. Aztryd appears unharmed, and her backpack is safely secured. Nizl is still in there, she thinks to herself, her mothering instincts immediately awaking her to action. She scrambles through the snow, forcing her cold limbs to work, so that she can assist Aztryd and Nizl. Reaching Aztryd, she starts picking at the bindings holding her friend to the saddle.

Aztryd looks down gratefully, as Elwing begins to loosen her from the saddle.  "Thank you, sister," she croaks hoarsely.  "How fared you?"

Elwing looks at her friend and replies, "I am somewhat exhausted, Aztryd, and cold. I am so pleased my uncle thought ahead and stowed that cloak away for me. I think I was a little shortsighted thinking I wouldn't need it. A sip from that flask he gave you would also go down well!" Elwing blows on her hands to warm them and turns her attention back to unfastening the bindings, which have done their work exceedingly well.

  "Aye, it would!" Aztryd agrees.  Twisting in the saddle, she works at the icy ropes holding the spare cloak in place, and tucked within that cloak, the flask.  It is slow work, in the dark, the moon hidden by the snow-filled clouds.  Nizl's cries sound louder, without the rush of wind.  "Yes, yes, magpie," Aztryd croons to her.  "We are here, we are safe.  You will be out in a minute."  Their voices sound loud, in the silence of the wintry night.

Elwing struggles with frozen fingers and pulls at the bindings, a small sigh of triumph exudes from her lips as they finally come loose. "There, Aztryd, here let me help you down," she murmers. Elwing stands to allow Aztryd to use her as a support.

Aztryd 's stiffened legs can hardly move.  Leaning against Elwing, she shifts her weight, until she slides off the saddle, into a heap in the snow.  Laying on her back, she sighs in relief, and kicks her feet into the air, enjoying the freedom to move again.

Elwing smiles at her friend and holds out her hand to help her up from the wet mound of snow into which she has fallen. "We should gather your belongings and head for the compound," she suggests, looking towards the backpack containing Nizl.

 "Aye, we should get in out of this weather," Aztryd says, as she takes Elwing's hand and pulls herself upright.  "Let us get you that cloak and flask, as well."  She turns back to the swan, but the cloak atop the saddle is now too high for her to reach.

Elwing follows her friend's line of sight and moves across to Alqua's side, reaching for the flask and the warm cloak her uncle had provided for her. She quickly wraps herself in the cloak and hands the flask to Aztryd. "Here sister, take a drink from the flask and warm yourself. Then we can go search out your gammy!" she says

Aztryd gratefully takes the flask, and takes a sturdy gulp from it.  It does, indeed, provide a comforting warmth in her stomach.  But they will all need real food soon.  She unfastens the ties on her own pack, enough to pull Nizl out of her nest of cloths.  Nizl is of course quite damp, and rather smelly, but no matter.  Aztryd holds Nizl under her cloak, as she readjusts the backpack.  Patting the giant swan on the neck, she murmurs, "You did very well, Alqua.  My thanks."

Elwing smiles at her friend's recognition of the bravery of Alqua. Turning to the swan and curling her arm around its neck, she nuzzles into the soft downy feathers, crooning words of thanks and comfort in the bird language they share. "You must stay here Alqua, stay hidden. Make this thy nest until we return to you. These people do not know of you as friend - you must be wary of danger."

 Stroking the great swan's neck again, she turns to Aztryd, seeing her friend checking on her young child. Elwing takes a small sip from the flask and feels the warmth enter her body, except for the tips of her toes. Looking down, she remembers her feet are bare. "Oh, dear. I think I must quickly find some footwear, Aztryd. The sooner we find the compound and the entrance to the caves the better. I think it is just a little way down the mountainside from here." Elwing turns and starts slowly making her way to the edge of the mountain from the copse of trees, straining to see any outline of the fortifications she knew existed nearby.

Aztryd  looks around as they walk, gathering her bearings.  They are indeed near the front gates of Gamilfûn.  Yet all is silent and dark.  "Sister Elwing," she says quietly, "This is strange. Even at night, there should be sentries and torches at the doors."

Elwing looks in alarm at her friend and realizes that there are no lights around this mountainside whatsoever. Come to think of it, it was eerily silent as well, silent except for the crunching made by Aztryd's boots as she walks through the snow and the occasional loud howling of a gust of the icy cold wind. "I wonder why that is so," she retorts.

The road to the main gates shows only as a treeless swath in the snow.  Warily, Aztryd walks up along the edge of the cleared road.  In the wall of the mountain before them, she can dimly see a hole.  Not a locked gate.  A gaping hole.

> Next     

Fireside Chat -- The Big and the Bad, part 2

Present:

Shawn Daysleeper      

Cinnamon Raymaker 

AelKennyr Rhiano      

Lihan Taifun                

Belenos                          (belenosstormchaser.magic)

Summary:

The “protagonist” is the main character, the one who drives the plot forward. The “antagonist” is the character trying to stop the main character. (These terms come from ancient Greek drama.)

Baddies typically fall into one of two types: the “morally blind” character, who sees breaking the rules as simply a useful advantage, or the one who believes some twisted logic that his actions are right and he is actually the good guy.

Characteristics that we would give to a well-played bad guy:

   •  intelligence

   •  perceptiveness

   •  a personal history that justifies their current behaviours and outlook on life

The personal history should offer solid reasons why the character is the way he is.

   •  the possibility for change

   •  powerful enough to be a creditable obstacle to the protagonist

Most people play major villains as resisting change. However, do not automatically assume this is always true. A really powerful being might already have everything he wants, but what unfulfilled desires might he still have?

There is great dramatic material in giving the powerful enemy character the potential for redemption, but only under specific, unlikely circumstances. Thus the tension: will everything come together to change the bad guy?

In the same way, a good character could “go bad” if circumstances conspired exactly wrong.

A villain is “too strong” if the protagonist has no way of successfully opposing him. This is the corollary of a godmodding protagonist. Neither side should be guaranteed victory. Each side should need to work hard.

AelKennyr Rhiano:       ok...let's talk about the bad guys?
Shawn Daysleeper:       ok :)
Lihan Taifun:                 bad guys!
Belenos whispers: yes please.. :D
AelKennyr Rhiano smiles
Shawn Daysleeper:       yay :)
AelKennyr Rhiano:       It might help us if we borrow two terms from fiction writing... protagonist and antagonist...
Protagonist comes from Greek and means, basically, "To play the first part." around whom the events of the narrative's plot revolve and with whom the audience is intended to most identify. In the theatre of Ancient Greece, three actors played all of the main dramatic roles in a tragedy; the leading role was played by the protagonist, while the other roles were played by deuteragonist and the tritagonist. :P
Belenos:                           second and third agonist?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes, basically
Lihan Taifun:                 #2 actor and #3 actor
Shawn Daysleeper:       ok
AelKennyr Rhiano:       the second and third part. In greek theater....good drama revolved around three character which represented three basic urges or themes.
Shawn Daysleeper:       proto in chemistry means "to come before" I think that goes along with this too
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes! the protagonist comes before the other two, and is supposed to be the person we are rooting for, we can identify with.
Shawn Daysleeper:       each character is a theme?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Let me explain a little?
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes :)
Belenos listens
AelKennyr Rhiano:       the deuteragonist was the second most important character. may switch from being with or against the protagonist depending on the deuteragonist's own conflict/plot. So...the deuteragonist carried the plot twists...the obstacles...the challenges.
a tritagonist may act as the instigator or cause of the sufferings of the protagonist. Despite being the least sympathetic character of the drama, he occasions the situations by which pity and sympathy for the protagonist are excited
So...they can represent and did in alot of Greek drama, the challenges, the obstacles, the conflicts, and yes, even the themes of the story.
The deuteragonist would play roles as a confidant or aide to the principal character, and thereby elicit greater character depth from the principal character by having the protagonist explain their feelings and motivations to an on-stage listener
I know...random information from Ael.
Lihan Taifun:                 :)
Shawn Daysleeper:       hehe it is all new to me hehe
Cinnamon Raymaker:  makes sense though
AelKennyr Rhiano:       But I am hoping it gives you something to mull over when we talk about this protagonist/antagonist interchange.
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes it does
Belenos smiles.. so how does your random information translate to our baddies?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Ahhhhh, Yes....moving on....So let's talk about how the bad guy is portrayed. Well, you need a bad guy, you need to establish he's bad, and you need an explanation why he's bad.
Cinnamon Raymaker thinks back to the convo between the dragon and the balrog
AelKennyr Rhiano:       but now let's remember our Greek friends and ask...is that it? Is that all we need?
Belenos:                           well no.. you'd need the baddie to act accordingly... to help elicit sympathy for the good guy?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       In a great deal of the typical rp we see, there are two main categories of baddies. The first is the one that sees breaking the rules as simply a useful advantage, the 'morally blind' character. The second is the one who believes some twisted logic that his actions are right and he is actually the good guy.
Basically the protagonist and antagonist share this relationship.
Protagonist drives the plot forward.
Antagonist tries to stop him.
AelKennyr Rhiano:       In the most basic form, the Protagonist is the Prime Mover of the effort to achieve the Story's Goal. The Antagonist is the Chief Obstacle to that effort. In a sense, Protagonist is the irresistible force and Antagonist is the immovable object.
Belenos:                           <----makes a good immovable object.. *nods nods nods*
Shawn Daysleeper:       hehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Why? Why do you?
Belenos whispers: determination and creativity in how to be difficult...:D
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Because we will keep coming back to this question...is just being "bad" enough?
Belenos:                           i think it all comes down to what one's motivation is for being percieved as bad. remember, it's the viewpoint usually that determines good or bad
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes
Belenos:                           I was careful when i was developing Suraumo to give him a good reason for being how he was.. in his eyes, he's not bad.. just trying to survive... and he has a low opinion of others..
AelKennyr Rhiano:       If we were to "Build-a-villain" right now....what characteristics would you give that character? Let's start with Cinnamon.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hmm I think intelligence would play a factor coupled with a knowledge of the trends of the themes of life running through the storyline
AelKennyr Rhiano:       please explain?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  how the character perceives these could convey a lot; particularly in their rendition of what is happening around them and how they see it as affecting them. i.e. motivation will be a key factor
AelKennyr Rhiano nods...so..intelligence AND a perceptiveness is what I am hearing?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  ***Yes***
AelKennyr Rhiano:       good. Belenos, what about you?
Belenos:                           I would have to give them a past.. not something vague.. but a past that would justify their current behaviours and outlook on life
Cinnamon Raymaker nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       good, so a personal history. Now, let's pause and define that that really is...and isn't

"I am a 12 level mage who has a fae/elven/mer mother and human father. both of whom died when I was a baby and I was raised by the king of a faraway land, and so I am roaming the world trying to find this hero because he is my long lost half brother...is that personal history? Oh...btw...I hate him.

Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehe
Lihan Taifun:                 it's the start of a personal history, maybe, but it doesn't have nearly enough detail yet to be useful
Cinnamon Raymaker:  indeed
Belenos:                           umm.. some would say it is... but it says nothing about why the parents died, why he was raised by a king, and why he's trying to find his long lost half brother and why he hates him...
Cinnamon Raymaker nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Bingo, It may be a backstory...AND a medical miracle.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  motivation missing - what is driving the character
Belenos nods nods nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       but it is a very weak backstory, not very playable, and yes, that too, Cinnamon!
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Also...I mean...what the heck?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       There is an important question we ask on our rp application..
9. What are some of the characteristics of your potential role play character?
Belenos:                           i think the weakness in so many backstories like that is they are trying to claim too may powers from too many races to give themselves power.. but in the end their character's believability is weak.. as is what can be done with them
Cinnamon Raymaker:  agreed
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Exactly
Shawn Daysleeper:       nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       and those with weak backstories or weak personal histories NEVER can answer this question. We get all kinds of goofiness

can play the role of a mage, a warrior and a liason with current and potential dragon allies. Oh, and knows Manwe personally.

Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehe
Shawn Daysleeper:       lol
Lihan Taifun:                 lol
Belenos:                           omg
AelKennyr Rhiano:       now here is another answer to that question.

I am currently of the age of 30. My human life began in Norway around 1280AD. I have 10 brothers. To help my family avoid the 11th child tax at the time and send home money when I could I left there originally for England on a ship set to go thru the Baltic Sea. I am a skilled bow man and negotiator in battles between peoples.

While on this voyage of 3 months I became ill with sea sickness. A woman came to me and used herbal medicines from her belt sack and slowly drew me back to good health. She was someone unlike anyone I had ever met. Strong will for the women of the time and mult-gifted.. We became good friends during this time and a romance started a new path by itself.

Out Ship entered England's Harbor and the seas got rough all of a sudden even thought it was raining. There screams on dead and people yelling ‚”Huge light in the sky.”

**It was a gate to a place that would change my life for ever and my friend's.** It drew our ship in like a vortex and suddenly the night sky cleared‚

Anya was by my side and never left me. I had a plan to change her life as well.

We were at sea for another good week and when we got off a strange dock. We docked and the village looks European but there were strange beings walking around and a few humans. I was honestly confused out of my head but tried to keep my focus of getting us both off the dock. I took Anya's hand and got down on one knee and proposed to her. She looked baffled for a second and her lips whispered yes. I got up and I held and her and we went into a strange tavern‚¶..We ate and drank and stayed over for 3 nights.

I ended up finding the chapel that was on the ship and married her on the 5th day we were there. After that we never saw the people we came with on the ship again.. Strangely enough I ended up finding an abandon manor and fits it up for us and paid a lord never by who owned the other side of the property to buy it out with 50 pieces of gold.

btw...there are several more paragraphs in this vein
Shawn Daysleeper:       that was on the application?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes, taken from an application
Shawn Daysleeper:       wow ugh
Lihan Taifun:                 as "characteristics"?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yep, same question.
Shawn Daysleeper:       looks like he doesn't have to rp anything lol
AelKennyr Rhiano:       lol!
Belenos:                           omg.. my brain got tired just reading that..
AelKennyr Rhiano:       nodnodnod
Lihan Taifun:                 and he does't know much about history
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Oh, and btw, got miffed when I pointed out that we were actually Tolkien based Rp.. so, you know, his character should have some sort of relationship to Tolkien's world.
Lihan Taifun:                 I'm sure in anther page or two he could write a transition to the Tolkien universe :P
AelKennyr Rhiano:       He decided we had to adapt our rp to him.
Cinnamon Raymaker shakes head
AelKennyr Rhiano:       So...the personal history needs to do the following...
Explain WHO the character is...the motivation... oh, Lihan...no, he couldn't
The personal history should offer some solid reasoning why the character is the way he is... If he limps...why?
Belenos:                           we really are privileged when they want to Rp with us, aren't we?.. I mean, i cannnot understand why we'd not change everything we do to welcome them... *takes tongue out of cheek*
AelKennyr Rhiano:       lol
Cinnamon Raymaker bites tongue hehehe
Shawn Daysleeper:       lol
Lihan Taifun:                 yep, that's why they are already happily settled into a stable RP group already
Cinnamon Raymaker stifles another giggle
AelKennyr Rhiano:       So...a personal history is not so much this blanket statement like I gave...it is more the framework upon which to build your character. And the weaker the frame, the weaker the character. When people don't know what to do with their characters...that often is a part of the reason why they are at a loss.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  so realisitically - within the framework of my character I could turn bad depending on events
Belenos:                           oh yes.. :) like Aule.. :D sorta
AelKennyr Rhiano:       You...Elwing? omg...yes
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       you could become very bitter by all that has happened, for example.
Cinnamon Raymaker nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Part of the problem you may have with direction for Elwing may lie in that she is being played TOO good.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       That is possible.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  watch this space
AelKennyr Rhiano:       So...we give our antagonist intelligence, perceptiveness, a past...Shawn what else?
Shawn Daysleeper:       I am thinking. maybe antagonist changes their attitude somehow like became proudful or something similar
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Alot of rpers don't stop to consider that. so a shift in attitude, Shawn?
Shawn Daysleeper:       ya but what would cause the shift?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Good question and such a segue to something I was going to discuss next... :P
Cinnamon Raymaker:  the straw that broke the camel's back
AelKennyr Rhiano:       You brought up something VERY interesting, and that is how most people play the antagonist or a really major villain... Reticence or resistance to change.
To be clear, Reticence does not mean that the Antagonist is afraid of change. While that may be true, it may instead be that the Antagonist is simply comfortable with the way things are or may even be ecstatic about them. Or, he or she may not care about the way things are but hate the way they would become if the goal were achieved.
Think of LOTR...Gollum.. He was a bit resistant to change..was he not?
Belenos:                           yes
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And Sauron?
Lihan Taifun:                 on the other hand, Sauron was trying to make big changes
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Was he?
Lihan Taifun:                 compared to the current situation
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Wasn't he trying to revert everything back to an earlier state? where chaos ruled?
Lihan Taifun:                 or, where he ruled
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yep
Lihan Taifun:                 but he certainly wasn't satisfied with the current situation
AelKennyr Rhiano:       oh, not is the least...
Antagonist will try anything and everything to prevent the goal from being achieved. No matter what the cost, any price would not seem as bad to this character as the conditions he or she would endure if the goal comes to be. The Antagonist will never cease in its efforts, and will marshal every resource (human and material) to see that the Protagonist fails in his efforts.
Belenos:                           so are we talking about change in themselves.. or change in the world around them?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       heh heh..traditionally both. So...Shawn has thought out of the box. :))
Shawn Daysleeper:       smiles
Lihan Taifun:                 to say the antagonist will do anything to stop the protagonist -- that is more a literary requirement than a realistic one?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And last but not least one last to be in the mix for our antagonist, Lihan? Our villian is intellgent, perceptive, with a personal history and a change in attitude.
Lihan Taifun:                 (er, I was going to say that the antagonist needed a goal, and one that is contrary to the protagonist, but we seem to have already discussed that)
AelKennyr Rhiano:       can you think of another? Will get to your question in one moment.
Lihan Taifun:                 the antagonist needs to be powerful enough to be a creditable obstacle
AelKennyr Rhiano:       YES Good one
ok...your question. Let's think back to our own rp. So far it has been fairly consistent that the "evil" in our rp is trying to stop the good guys, don't you think?
Belenos:                           yes
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes
Lihan Taifun:                 yes
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And while in the real world, that "anything" might be mitigated...seldom is it in rp. But... that does not translate to "Bad is Bad and that's that."
Take your dragon, Belenos...could he be redeemed?
Belenos:                           oh yes... I was careful to leave that implication there when i explained the 'why' of how he is... if he were to meet someone with integrity and some selflessness it has the potential to redeem him
AelKennyr Rhiano:       But...is it likely? see...that is the real trick... giving a powerful enemy character the potential for redemption while at the same time making it credibly unlikely they won't redeem themselves. notice the "unlikely" not "impossible."
Lihan Taifun:                 it would take some powerful circumstances
AelKennyr Rhiano:       exactly
Belenos:                           actually yes it is... he hasn't become blindly destructive ... he is just bitter about being used .. if, for instance, he were in a dangerous situation.. and someone put themselves at risk to save him... it's possible.... but in the story how it is at the moment, the right situation would have to occur
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Precisely
Belenos:                           so he's in the balance... he can get worse.. or better... grow in either direction
AelKennyr Rhiano:       thus my choice of the word "unlikely"
Lihan Taifun:                 which means, if you went with a story arc about that, it would be a very dramatic story
AelKennyr Rhiano:       YES! see, unlikely is not impossible. that is very important.
to make another example... It is currently unlikely Elwing would become an atagonist. but it is not impossible. And just like with Belenos' character, provide the right circumstances, the right story arc, and the incentive to make that change, and OMG...what a great rp story!
Cinnamon Raymaker:  aye was just looking back over the nine questions card I made a couple of years back
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Let's return to the question of "power". Power plays a tremendous role. : A lot of rpers follow this logic that has it so that the more powerful a character, the less like they are to change.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  but wouldn't power allow you the freedom to do just that?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       you would think, wouldn't you? But...let's take Lihan the sweet deer...
{Lihan is wearing fleecy reindeer pajamas.}
Lihan Taifun:                 :P
Shawn Daysleeper:       hehe
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Let's make her a demon...
Cinnamon Raymaker:  i can see that ;P hehehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       omg...from the 30th level of hell. Older than the world, meaner than the meanest balrog..
Cinnamon Raymaker:  and what a great disguise
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Has a chipped tooth that has been aching her, too, so she is in a foul mood. She eats dragons for snacks.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hehehe
Shawn Daysleeper:       grins
AelKennyr Rhiano:       and loves roasted elves. None of us can stand against her. So...what incentive does she have to not be evil?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  getting her tooth fixed? hehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       lol!
Lihan Taifun:                 nobody ever sends me Christmas cards?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       heh heh
AelKennyr Rhiano:       "Fix my tooth or I will eat you."
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hahaha
AelKennyr Rhiano:       "fix my tooth SO I can eat you."
Cinnamon Raymaker giggles
AelKennyr Rhiano:       You see with too much power, you have no incentive to be other than you are. The question becomes, though, how much power is TOO much. Does this all makes a sort of sense?
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes it does
Lihan Taifun:                 and the kinds of things that motivate "good" characters wouldn't necessarily motivate a demon like that
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Quite right.
Lihan Taifun:                 I probably don't care about anyone else
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Why should you?
Lihan Taifun:                 if I did, I probably wouldn't have made the choices that got me where I am now
AelKennyr Rhiano:       however...if you have ...for example...Perceptiveness...perhaps you will come to notice that it is very lonely at the top. You have no friends. And doubtful you bother with allies... So..there is this potential that...should you falter or fall short of being victorious over your enemies, you could die.
Belenos:                           umm.. is lihan on fire?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       You would have no one who would lift a finger to aid you. Probably there would be a list of people ready to destroy you. she is an evil demon deer
Shawn Daysleeper:       ya she is invincible demon with a toothache
Belenos:                           omg lol ok
AelKennyr Rhiano:       nod, nod, nod
Belenos:                           yes, friendship and loyalty isn't big among baddies
AelKennyr Rhiano:       now Lihan the evil demon deer can play such a powerful character, that something else can happen.
Lihan Taifun:                 everyone else in the RP gets bored and goes home?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       People just give up and don't oppose her at all. yes!
Belenos:                           and that kinda ruins the story..
AelKennyr Rhiano:       or they always give in
Lihan Taifun:                 yeah, what he said
Belenos:                           as the demon deer can just do what it wants
AelKennyr Rhiano:       "Sure burn Alqualonde...oh and Tirion.."
Cinnamon Raymaker:  LOL
AelKennyr Rhiano:       "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire." : it does ruin the story. It also ruins the rper. It is as bad as a godmodding hero.
Lihan Taifun:                 yummy.: and once I eat the hero, there is no story
AelKennyr Rhiano:       and you get get hearburn...or be hungry an hour later.
So..tonight...to help you all...let's make a working definition of "too powerful." A rp villain is "too powerful" when...?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  - no one wants to cross them for fear of being killed?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes
Shawn Daysleeper:       when the villain can't be interacted with?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       and? YES!
Lihan Taifun:                 the other characters can't successfully fight him
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes
Belenos:                           when he has no weaknesses. or she
AelKennyr Rhiano:       YES YES!
Cinnamon Raymaker:  he has a way of defeating anything another character can throw at him
AelKennyr Rhiano:       If there is no credible way of defeating the villain...
Shawn Daysleeper:       or is too strong for the antagonist?
Cinnamon Raymaker nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       if he cannot...yes, all that. So...see, you already know alot about playing a villain the right way.
Belenos:                           but...
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Just as you don't want a hero who is always, happy, and smiling and able to meet all obstacles with no problem,....
Cinnamon Raymaker nods, every character needs some weaknesses
AelKennyr Rhiano:       You don't want a villain who is always snarling, and evil and always wins.
Belenos:                           not only does the villain have to be played right.. but those opposing him have to do so right, as well... to defeat the villain you have to do it credibly
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes. But, Belenos? very very true. And yes, Cinnamon. Every character needs weaknesses.
Lihan Taifun:                 but the villain is going to make the protagonist sweat the whole way
AelKennyr Rhiano:       See, it stinks to have a villain who is never defeated. but also it stinks to have a villain that can be too easily defeated.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  couldn't that also work in reverse? what Lihan said
AelKennyr Rhiano:       what do you mean, Cinnamon?
Lihan Taifun:                 a villain who is too easily defeated is just a minor nuisance
Cinnamon Raymaker:  well sometimes the villain has to sweat it, to make it credible
Belenos:                           so basically we need balance
AelKennyr Rhiano:       if there is true balance, both should suffer reversals and some obstacles.
Cinnamon Raymaker nods
AelKennyr Rhiano:       So..when the balrog and the dragon came to Alqulonde, notice what the good guys didn't do... We didn't pull out bows and knives and swords...Aha!
Cinnamon Raymaker:  indeed
AelKennyr Rhiano:       We didn't unroll our elven secret weapon. the Dedragonator 3000
Belenos:                           and miraculously hit the dragon in the eye with an arrow that penetrated teh brain
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes
Belenos:                           omg
AelKennyr Rhiano:       :P
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hahaha
Shawn Daysleeper:       hehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Since Nole and Olwe have been lightly armed, at best, in Alqualonde all this time...that night of the attack, they were also lightly armed. In fact, we were unarmed.
Lihan Taifun:                 I remember the planning session for that attack -- we were worried how we could let the balrog come to Alqualonde at all, since nobody would be able to stop him
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Right
Belenos nods.. I remember that
AelKennyr Rhiano:       and yes, it was a bit of a deus ex machina to have Ulmo rise out of the water and defend Alqualonde.
Lihan Taifun:                 "deus ex ocean"
AelKennyr Rhiano:       true
Cinnamon Raymaker:  and here I thought Ulmo did it out of love :) hehehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       It was in the script. and there was yet another element involved.... consequence.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  indeed
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Ulmo himself mentioned consequence.
Cinnamon Raymaker nods
Lihan Taifun:                 Ulmo is going to get in trouble for doing that
AelKennyr Rhiano:       He disobeyed Ulmo. {edit → Manwë} yes. And there was consequence on the side of the balrog and the dragon.
Belenos:                           empty bellies
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And especially for the matron who summoned them.
Belenos:                           ohhh yes.. there will be consquences for her
AelKennyr Rhiano:       So..as powerful as she is...with the ability to summon a balrog...she can be defeated.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  hmmm a twist in the love and hate story for Nimros?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       heh heh
Cinnamon Raymaker:  a shift in the balance of power
AelKennyr Rhiano:       See, to every summoning there is the potential to be destroyed by that which you summon, or that which you corrupt. Nimros is a far scarier character than the matron.
Cinnamon Raymaker wonders if thats why she is a goodie two-shoes. hehehe
AelKennyr Rhiano:       heh heh
Lihan Taifun:                 ah, but how does Elwing react to a scene of carnage?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  well she's seen plenty Lihan, beginning with her own family
Lihan Taifun:                 right, and how does it affect her, to see it playing out again?
AelKennyr Rhiano nods
Cinnamon Raymaker:  you won't know til it happens. hehe
Lihan Taifun:                 :)
Belenos:                           actually even 'good' intentions can blow up in your face
AelKennyr Rhiano:       oh, yeah.
Belenos:                           see how aule was going to clear the dark magic and what happened to him?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And how Nienna was trying to be supportive of Aule.
Belenos:                           yes..
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Does this all help with looking at powerful villains? Did I give you some things to consider?
Cinnamon Raymaker:  indeed
Belenos:                           oh yes
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes :)
Cinnamon Raymaker:  makes me consider things in a different light
Lihan Taifun:                 we know what "too powerful" is
Cinnamon Raymaker:  can only enrich the rp
AelKennyr Rhiano:       when you are measuring how powerful the villain needs to be...has to be...consider this ...
The important thing is that the Antagonist must be in a position in the plot to place obstacles in the path of the Protagonist. Since the drive of the Protagonist is measured by the size of the obstacles he or she must overcome, it is usually a good idea to pick the character who can bring to bear the greatest obstacles. But never impossible ones.
Three elves with two handed swords should not be able to bring down a healthy balrog by themselves without one hell of a fight. On the other hand.... : one balrog should not wipe out every single person in a entire kingdom in 15 minutes.
Belenos nods nods nods. Belenos whispers: no.. he'd take his time and relish it.. :D
AelKennyr Rhiano:       and some should escape. in a credible manner.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  and be the sting in the tail that comes back to to attack him
AelKennyr Rhiano:       :)
Lihan Taifun:                 yep
Cinnamon Raymaker:  where is Gandalf when you need him?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Even he had limits.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  aye but he changed during the fight
Lihan Taifun:                 he died in that fight
AelKennyr Rhiano:       that was kinda a change..yes...:P
Cinnamon Raymaker:  indeed – reborn,hehe
Belenos:                           i liked how after the Balrog got him, he didn't instantly rematerialise
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Me, too, Belenos.

AelKennyr Rhiano:       Soo, any thoughts, questions, comments?
Lihan Taifun:                 this is good, this helps in thinking about villains
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yay!
Belenos smiles.. it does
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes this is good :)
AelKennyr Rhiano:       I know I can take the long way around...but I hope it is worth it.
Cinnamon Raymaker:  well you made us think, which is good
AelKennyr Rhiano:       :)
Shawn Daysleeper:       smiles
AelKennyr Rhiano:       I am proud, very proud of the quality of our rp.
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes me too :)
Cinnamon Raymaker:  well you are all so helpful, it is a joy to work with you
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And you are a pleasure to rp with.
Cinnamon Raymaker smiles
AelKennyr Rhiano:       I love rping with our rpers.

AelKennyr Rhiano:       Do we want to continue next week? or another topic?
Belenos:                           what topic do you suggest?
Shawn Daysleeper:       want to continue with villains nxt time?
Belenos:                           well, what more is there to do with them, do you think?
Shawn Daysleeper:       I am not sure
Lihan Taifun:                 do we have more about fighting powerful opponents, beyond "don't make them too powerful"?
Belenos:                           shawn was asking while you were gone if we need to talk about villains some more next week or not?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       up to you. we can work on forming practical guidelines, or we can move onto another topic.
Belenos:                           i was wondering what else needed to be covered on them?
Lihan Taifun:                 or "powerful opponents" in general
AelKennyr Rhiano:       Well, we can talk about how to play powerful protagonists.
Belenos:                           what about a 'how to fight/defeat/out manoever them?' ?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       we can do that
Lihan Taifun:                 that sounds good
AelKennyr Rhiano:       ok
Shawn Daysleeper:       yes it does
Belenos:                           i've seen so many role plays where someone encounters a baddie and kinda just charges in.. and somehow miraculously wins
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yeah, ok...we will do that, then. And baddies do the same.
Belenos:                           k.. :) oh yes
Shawn Daysleeper:       ok :)
Lihan Taifun:                 sounds very good
AelKennyr Rhiano:       That was why I like the way you and Leo rped raiding the dwarves on Blue Mountain.
Belenos smiles.. by putting some thought into it?
AelKennyr Rhiano:       yes
Lihan Taifun:                 sneaky dragon
AelKennyr Rhiano:       heh heh
Belenos:                           hehe.. suraumo didn't get where he was by being all brawn and no brains
AelKennyr Rhiano:       exactly
AelKennyr Rhiano:       And omg...Leo really did a good job.
Lihan Taifun:                 he did
Belenos:                           and even when playing a baddie, you have to leave things open.. when the dragon and balrog had that little spat when they got back from alqualonde
AelKennyr Rhiano:       That was brilliant.
Belenos:                           even though the dragon hit the balrog with his tail I also made him trip and fall to make him vulnerable.. :)
AelKennyr Rhiano:       That was such a great detail.
Belenos smiles. no point having a weakness if you don't role play it.. :)