AelKennyr Rhiano
Shawn Daysleeper
Harumi Oanomochi
Lihan Taifun
Zenon Mistwalker
Fifi Wickentower
Kue Khaos
Canelle Nightfire
Kellinar Trevellion
Florian Longmeadow
Zryonotralionxus
Summary:
“Godmodding” is miraculously doing things your character would not be able to do. Declaring other characters actions, or the results of your actions on other characters, also counts as “godmodding.”
“Metagaming” is knowing, in-character, things that your character would not know. This includes knowing someone's name before being introduced, and reacting to another player's unspoken thoughts. Well-done internal monolog (what the character is thinking) can add depth to a roleplay, but other characters must always ignore it.
In general, it is better to describe the outward signs of your character's emotions. (Not “Joe is angry,” but rather “Joe snarls, jumps up and down and waves his fists in the air.”)
If your character really is telepathic, or has other “super powers”, talk to the Game Master and establish clear limits to your powers.
No matter how nasty your character is, in-character, be polite out-of-character. Don't take personally things that happen within the roleplay. Good manners are a big help in keeping emotions under control.
If someone is godmodding or metagaming to the point of preventing the roleplay, stop the roleplay and remove that person. This would be the responsibility of the highest ranking sim officer or Fourth Age officer present.
> Next
AelKennyr Rhiano: If you have imed me, and I have not responded, I apologize. I have to ignore ims during the meetings in order to focus on out topic. Please understand.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Well, let's begin:) Let start with basic definitions....does anyone want to define godmodding?
Fifi Wickentower: putting words into anothers mouth for one
Harumi Oanomochi: I have a notecard with definitions. Shall I cut/past?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Thank you, Harumi...could you paraphase for us, please?
Shawn Daysleeper: doing things beyond the capabilities of your character
AelKennyr Rhiano: and at the end of the night, would you pass them out, after the open discussoin?
Harumi Oanomochi: sure thing boss. Godmodding is IC behavior which miraculously attempts to get through a situation unscathed.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Very good, Harumi. Yes. it allows you to act and respond in ways not appropriate to your class or race.
Harumi Oanomochi: Your character cannot categorically state action as a fait accompli. You can "attempt" to heal or attack someone, but you must wait for other characters to react to see if it is successful.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Rp is about give and take. Action and reaction.
Harumi Oanomochi: Exactly...it's a partnership
AelKennyr Rhiano: For example, "Olwe sees the arrow coming at him and neatly dodges it, picks up his bow from across the room, fires an arrow and hits Eonwe squarely in the chest." You are doing things an elf could not do ordinarily, and you are dictating the outcome of your actions. No one want to rp with someone who never loses, never fall down, etc. No One has a chance to do a thing...
Harumi Oanomochi: nods...you mean you can't do those things? *giggles*
AelKennyr Rhiano: Only once. Then people do not like to rp with you anymore
AelKennyr Rhiano: Godmodding is bascially assuming the invulnerability of a god, in essence. And it can be very subtle, or very blatant.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Someone want to throw out a definition of metagaming?
Kue Khaos: a term use to define strategy
AelKennyr Rhiano: please go on.
Harumi Oanomochi: Simply put, using what they learn OOC (Out of Character) while IC (In Character).
AelKennyr Rhiano: :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: Drakum, please tell us more about strategy
Kue Khaos: action use in a game which transcends a describe ruleset, using factor to that affects the game, or goes beyond the limit set by the game. ok in short the world or universe outside of the game
AelKennyr Rhiano: Basically both things allow you to assume the powers of a "god,' so to speak. I tend to lump both together as godmodding, which is not correct, but it is because my personal experience is to see them hand-in-hand.
Harumi Oanomochi: yes...Rule of thumb: if you could not have known about it through roleplay, don't use the information.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Excellent rule of thumb.
Zenon Mistwalker smiles
Fifi Wickentower: you don't know the name of the person unless you are introduced
AelKennyr Rhiano: That is the most often done metagaming.
Fifi Wickentower: anything you read in a profile is unusable unless it is through direct experience i the rp
AelKennyr Rhiano: Greeting someone by name when they have not been introduced.
Fifi Wickentower: nod
Canelle Nightfire nods
Shawn Daysleeper nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: Is it wrong to check a rper's profile? No, and yes. If you use it to avoid things like referring to them using the wrong gender or for information that would help the mechanics of the rp, no. (For example, Player X has name that does not denote geneder, does not dress in a gender specific way and I do not know is player X is one sex or the other. It is not cheating to check their profile OOC so that in OOC chat I do not insult them with my ignorance. OR I am writing a rp scenario that heavily involve Player X, I may check to see if they have listed any rp limits in their profile.) But if your rp character uses the information listed on the profile in rp to give your character information they would not have otherwise, that is bad rp.
Harumi Oanomochi: and that is annoying. If it were real, there would not be tags floating overhead
AelKennyr Rhiano: right! New rpers ...we expect them to make simple mistakes like that. But it is something you want to move past.
Zryonotralionxus: I always believe a good profile should just be what a player would see in detail, not so much who their friends are, who they are mated to and so forth.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Profiles are as personal as the individual.
AelKennyr Rhiano: What is the second most commonly done metagaming?
Lihan Taifun: miraculously surviving dangerous situations?
AelKennyr Rhiano: That is the third most common, Lihan :))
Lihan Taifun: oh, he keeps statistics!
AelKennyr Rhiano: heh heh Ael the bookie!
Harumi Oanomochi: LOL!
Canelle Nightfire: directing the actions of another?
AelKennyr Rhiano: No, it is very simple. Responding when someone states their thoughts.
Canelle Nightfire: ah Canelle Nightfire will remember that in future
Harumi Oanomochi: YES! I might add: This includes RP notecards, unless someone IC has told your character what transpired. It's okay to mention that your character heard such and such while you are in RP or doing a solo RP monolog, but you must have gained the knowledge while in character.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Unless you can truly read all minds...you should never respond to a character's thoughts. And I have heard some experienced rpers say that "Thinking aloud" all the time is a lazy way to rp. Emote nothing another cannot notice about you. If you are puzzled, knit your brows together. If you are happy, break into a grin.
Lihan Taifun: I have seen "thoughts" done well
AelKennyr Rhiano: They can be done well. The general rp rule is is that there are exceptions to general rp rules :P Thoughts can be done in the rp to add character development to deepen the intensity of the rp, and to add flavor. IF someone thinks during a rp, what should you do?
Fifi Wickentower: nothing?
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes!
Harumi Oanomochi: It adds depth to the rp, but is not actionable. you might notice a sour expression, and wonder what engendered it
Fifi Wickentower: :D
Lihan Taifun: right, you character isn't aware of that, so they can't react to it
Canelle Nightfire: its making sense
AelKennyr Rhiano: It usually is not.
Shawn Daysleeper: unless you can read minds. some races can
AelKennyr Rhiano: right
Canelle Nightfire: sorry - just thinking back over the rp we just did ;P
AelKennyr Rhiano: You can think, but unless you give an outward clue for that thought processes, the others should not respond.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Yes, there are, Shawn.
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: And if you have that sort of character, you should be aware of your limits. . And you should have clear and defined limits. and Game Masters are valuable resources in that area. In our rp, for example, I should never be able to read Zenon's mind whenever I want. Certainly not Fifi's.
Harumi Oanomochi: Still,internal monlogue can add depth to the finished record but it is by no means rp-able
AelKennyr Rhiano: Oh, it is a great tool. And we see it alot in the 4th age to flesh out the situations and characters.
Harumi Oanomochi nods
Lihan Taifun: The situation I was remembering, it was important to the plot that one character was blatantly lying to another, so it was useful to read the difference between what she was saying and what she was thinking
AelKennyr Rhiano: Yes, that is a good example. But a good rule of thumb is : if you can see it, hear it, taste it, touch it...describing doing it...don't just think it or just state it.
Harumi Oanomochi: Very well put
AelKennyr Rhiano: I think if you want example of how to rp a mindreader, you should watch a sci fi series called Babylon 5. The Psi-Corp are mind readers.
Lihan Taifun: but I agree, in general, don't just "be angry": stomp or shout or scowl or pound the wall, or something visible
AelKennyr Rhiano: And they have different level of abilities and strengths and their characters reflect their limitations.
AelKennyr Rhiano: The most visible godmodding and metagaming happen when you have combat or rp fight scenes. We can all easily recall instances that happen in the heat of an armed conflict.
Harumi Oanomochi: oh yes
AelKennyr Rhiano: They quickly make the rp no fun.
Zryonotralionxus: Only fight or battle scenes I have seen that did not ruin an RP where ones already planned out as to the outcome
AelKennyr Rhiano: Even then, to godmod or metagame can cause time wasted while things are sorted, and can create hard feelings. If you continuously challenged or negate everytime you are hurt, for example, you immediately impact the rp of everyone involved. But we are talking, for the moment of obvious things. There are not so obvious things. Do not ascribe emotions to others. Also do not ascribe actions to another. By doing either you are controlling how another character acts or feels to some extent. Never forces your perceptions of a rp character on that character in such a way you are exhibiting a control over them.
Harumi Oanomochi: It all boils down to spirit of cooperation. There is no "I" in roleplay
AelKennyr Rhiano: Well put. You should instead notice how the other character is behaving and respond to their behavior in statements. Remember, as in real life, the only person you can truly control is yourself. And maybe dead bodies on a battlefield.. I mean...you could bury them.
Zryonotralionxus: Also, ones mind should remain open and things done in RP should not cross over into OOC
Harumi Oanomochi: Your character does not have to be polite, but your roleplay style MUST be
AelKennyr Rhiano: Oooh, excellent point. Please and thankyou never go out of style, either. Don't assume because you are king Gruff, that you can treat people as beneath you. You may be a rp king, but a real leader thinks of his/her people before their egos.
Harumi Oanomochi: Zryon, also a great point
AelKennyr Rhiano: YES! I actually like our arch villian, OOC. IC.....is a different story, and the reverse should be true.
Zryonotralionxus: I have had many enemies IC that where very good friends OOC
Harumi Oanomochi: nods
Zryonotralionxus: and yes, should not cross in either direction though I have never had someone I RP with not be a good friend OOC
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes, good, good point, Zyron. And let me also stress, you must also respect the rp itself. The rp belongs to all who play in it. It is yours, mine, ours.
Zryonotralionxus: Without others, there is no RP
AelKennyr Rhiano: Exactly.
Zryonotralionxus: Well, true one can RP with themselves, but this tends to get boring in time
AelKennyr Rhiano: For most. I know of one who has enough alts she can populate a sim. :P
Fifi Wickentower: chokes
Shawn Daysleeper: smiles
Canelle Nightfire chuckles
AelKennyr Rhiano: Be respectful of the sims where you go to rp.
Fifi Wickentower: ask first if it is not your sim
AelKennyr Rhiano: YES! You are a guest. That is their home that they have opened up to you. If you know you are going to rp there, contact the rp leader or sim owner.
Harumi Oanomochi: and do read their guidelines. Sims differ
Zryonotralionxus: Respect given is respect earned
{Lihan crashes and relogs.}
Harumi Oanomochi gave you Metagaming and Godmodding.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Manners help alot in keeping people calm when there is a dispute, too
Canelle Nightfire nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: Something I learned from being security...if you insist on using good manners, it will help you to remain calm and focus on the situation instead of your anger. or other emotions
Canelle Nightfire nods
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: When I trained security, I insisted on them using manner and keeping focus on the situations, not the personalities. It works in rping too. We all have our limits, times where we just have had enough. I refer to it as drowning the person in the harbor at Alqualonde, but then I realized it would kill the fish again. :P
Harumi Oanomochi: I ran a forum of 55K members on CompuServe back in the day, and my top suggestion to avoid "flamewars" was to get up from the computer for 3 mins...have a cup of coffee or tea, and think before hitting the return key.
AelKennyr Rhiano nods
Harumi Oanomochi: you cant always do that in RP, but consideration before reaction never steers one wrong.
Zryonotralionxus: Staying focused also helps one listen and learn how to react properly
AelKennyr Rhiano: Yes, it does.
Zryonotralionxus: And above all things, it is a game, should not be life or death
AelKennyr Rhiano: And please, let me say this, I cannot say it enough...when a person godmods or metgames to the point where all rp effectively stops? That person is now a griefer.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Stop the rp and remove the griefer...nothing will be accomplished trying to rp it through.
Harumi Oanomochi: amen!
AelKennyr Rhiano: Actually, a gamemaster can. They can stop the game cold. And you all should too when it happens. The most that person can disrupt at that point in time, the most they achieve what they wanted. Attention. Godmodding and metagaming are actually pleads for attention.
Lihan Taifun: (I thought she meant, you can' t always take a 3 min tea break)
AelKennyr Rhiano: Whhooops! My bad!
Canelle Nightfire: lol
Harumi Oanomochi: pop their balloon
AelKennyr Rhiano: "The war will resume after this tea break." Plays elevator music for 3 minutes.
Harumi Oanomochi: <--- is hysterical at the elevator music comment
Canelle Nightfire: hahaha
Harumi Oanomochi: take the griefer out of the action and the attention stops
Zryonotralionxus: they also are greatly associated with ones who hate to loose
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes!
Harumi Oanomochi: LOL!
AelKennyr Rhiano: Again, that is back to attention seeking and getting. If they lose, they feel the attention is no longer on them in a favorable light.
Lihan Taifun: and if there is no game master around at the time?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Then you follow chain of command. In the 4th Age, an Eldar can always stop a rp. We are the founders. So can Wardens..
Canelle Nightfire: is there a list of the chain of command for 4th age? or just check group
AelKennyr Rhiano: You never go wrong with checking any rp group's profile. And we should issues a chain of command. So far we have not needed one.
Sakura Easterwood is our gamesmaster.
Then we have Wardens
then rpleaders/simowners
then Eldars.
Harumi Oanomochi: takes notes
AelKennyr Rhiano: Coming from a security background, once you have a griefer, it is no longer a rp issue but a sim safely issue. Security for that sim should be contacted. Take the responsibilty to stop yourself rping, at that point and do not engage the griefer. Most times...not all, but most. someone is godmodding or metagaming because they were not taught to rp well, they were not taught at all or they have no idea how they are impacting others.
Zryonotralionxus: You do stumble upon the god/metas more so in the random and free form RPs, Very rarely due to the amount of time needed in preparation to get into any storyline RP and being approved or accepted does one get that far in RP
AelKennyr Rhiano: Also, remember, not every rper speaks and understand English. Be respectful of that. and of time zones. Once I would have agreed with that. I can honestly say in sl, you would be surprised. I have seen some people go to incredible lengths to godmod in storyline rp. What gets me is that they are allowed to get away with it!
Canelle Nightfire nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: and even greater lengths to metagame.
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
Zryonotralionxus: Yes, being new to SL I am sure there is much I have yet seen. But I do know of working with those not fluent in ones language
AelKennyr Rhiano: And as a side note...being a sim owner and rp leader...please, if you need something for a rp...tell the owner/rp leader as soon as you know. Don't wait around because you think you can. It's incredibly thoughtless. AelKennyr Rhiano blushes.
Harumi Oanomochi: good point Ael
Zryonotralionxus: I am not sure I follow you on that thought Ael?
AelKennyr Rhiano: ok, let me give some examples...
Zryonotralionxus nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: I had someone who wanted to join the sim and rp here..so he said. And I gave him an invite to our group. 20 minutes later, the sim is crashing, my security is screaming "mayday, mayday" and points out that we have 350 prims under the dock in Alqualonde. HE decided, without asking anyone to be Lord of the Sea and to build his underwater palace.
Canelle Nightfire: oops
Harumi Oanomochi: yikes!
AelKennyr Rhiano: I decided to redecorate his palace to another sim.
Zryonotralionxus: Oh my
Shawn Daysleeper: ugh
Harumi Oanomochi: ya think?
AelKennyr Rhiano: I have offered people to use facilities in their rp only to be told, in very frank terms, for example, that my skimpy little 188 prim palace was not exotic enough for them.
Harumi Oanomochi: sheesh
Zryonotralionxus: So then your refering to if one for some reason needs more than what is already offered for RP? I am not hear long and even I would never build on someones sim without asking first, that goes back to the respect to the owner
AelKennyr Rhiano: I have had people contact me while they were on MY sim and demand I clear Alqualonde for their rp....and they are on my sim rping as they im me.
Canelle Nightfire: goes back to simple manners
AelKennyr Rhiano: Also, it is about thoughtfulness. yes
Fifi Wickentower: some ppl think sl is all an open playground for their own use
AelKennyr Rhiano: When the 4th AGe does a rp in Sylvahara, I contact Comet right then. I don't wait. I could..I have that relationship with Comet. I could wait until the last minute. But that is disrespecting her.
Harumi Oanomochi: exactly so. it's called a "heads up" in the military and common courtesy as well.
Zryonotralionxus: True and one should be even more careful to not ruin a good relationship through disrespect
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes. And realize a lot of rpers expect to be able to have a prim allowance just because they rp on your sim. I have had people come here I have never seen before and scream at me because Alqualonde is not a 24/7 rp sim. So really, it IS all about manners.
Shawn Daysleeper: yes
AelKennyr Rhiano: Thoughts? Comments? Questions?
Zryonotralionxus: I am still speechless over the demanding of some
AelKennyr Rhiano: I wish I could say those did not come from personal experience.
Harumi Oanomochi: yes. I've had similar experiences in my sim
AelKennyr Rhiano: Some people think, too, that if they play a bad guy, they don't need manners. You need them even more.
Kue Khaos: i use manners in every sim i go to after i ask a member in the chain of command in that sim if my species is allow
Zryonotralionxus: Well being a bad guy, they can be a bit rude as far as their PC's personality goes, but it should never cross over into OOC nor does that allow them to god mod or metagame
Zenon Mistwalker: Lots of good examples of topics...to understand also the balance with creative flow and respect of all those concerned with all that makes it possible to RP...very interesting discussion :)
Harumi Oanomochi: Well, I've picked up a few fine points I had not considered...no amount of experience should preclude wanting to continue to learn, and I'm most grateful for these discussion nights...very enlightening. My thanks.
AelKennyr Rhiano: I think Lihan and Harmi and Kell can back me up...you try to be there for everyone who is on your sim and in your rp. I don't need bowing or scraping, or kiss my...elbow...but I am just like the rest of you... a "thank you " or a "please" or a "good job," that goes alot way.
Kellinar Trevellion nods
AelKennyr Rhiano smiles.. I really like these discussions. What should we talk about next time?
Shawn Daysleeper: smiles
Kue Khaos: i'm to big to kiss ur elbows it wouldn't work
AelKennyr Rhiano: hahahahah ok...then don't eat me.
Kue Khaos: oh never
Zryonotralionxus: I am always thankful of other's time and often I hate to feel I am being burdensome when I am full of many questions lol
Kue Khaos: now give me a troll or a dwarf ad we in business
Zryonotralionxus: but yes, the first time you can say you know everything, you already lost that battle
AelKennyr Rhiano: Asking questions is what gives you answers
AelKennyr Rhiano: Ok...what is the topic for next time?
AelKennyr Rhiano hears crickets chirping...
Harumi Oanomochi: how about RP objects and tools like lights, magical objects, devices to enhance the rp.
Zenon Mistwalker: sounds interesting
AelKennyr Rhiano: Is that ok with everyone?
Shawn Daysleeper: works for me
Canelle Nightfire nods
Kue Khaos: yes
Kellinar Trevellion nods
Zryonotralionxus: I would be interested to see how or know a bit on how such things are used
> Next