Present:
AelKennyr Rhiano
Shawn Daysleeper
Lihan Taifun
Zryonotralionxus
Summary:
A trick to use when your viewer is having trouble displaying avatars: Go to Advanced > rendering> wire frame....click on that and allow the whole screen to go wireframe...then change back.
AvataRPlay Magazine wants to do an article on Fellowship of the Fourth Age, in their April issue. They are particularly impressed with the quality of our storyline and our emoting.
“Let me back up and clarify a few things...I don't a misconception created. There is a difference between a narrative disclosure of what is going on inside a rp character... and a rper depending upon constantly using certain ....words...to convey what would better be described in actions.”
Other players cannot react to the thoughts in your head. They can react to your body language.
Don't fall into the trap of knowing, in-character, things that you have no way of knowing in-character. (This definitely includes other people's thoughts and other people's future actions, as well as miraculously helpful information.)
The purposes of emoting are:
1. to respond
2. to allow others to respond to you
3. to show action
4. to show emotion
5. to move the rp story
There is another category of descriptive writing, not technically “emoting”, whose purpose is character development. This is detailed descriptions of your character's thoughts and memories. Many of the solo roleplays use a lot of this kind of character development.
The target audience for the character development is the story reader, not your fellow roleplayers. It is good to give them some body language, otherwise they will have nothing at all to react to.
Used to excess, writing character development can distract a player from paying attention to the action and the other players.
“I think that you will find two very large camps of rpers in sl...those who favor one or two lines of conversation and heavy dependency upon a rp or combat hud.. and then text based rpers. And we are somewhere in the middle with heavy leanings toward text based rp.” The most extreme “text based” camp is the “paragraph” role-play.
Some groups use a strict round-robin rotation to give each player a chance to speak. That can become stilted and restrictive. The important thing is to pay attention to the pace of the roleplay, and be sure everyone is getting a chance to post. You can politely ask, out of character, that people slow down for you.
Let me give you some points to consider for emoting.
1. Slow down. Take your time and respond in a way that helps the rp.
2. Emotes are not always grammatically correct. Don't be afraid of using dashes, commas, or run on sentences. It should, however, make sense.
3. Try to stick to one pronoun usage.....for example:
Use either "Olwe picks up his sword and prepares to do battle."
or "I pick up my sword and prepare to do battle."
NOT
"Olwe picks up my sword and prepares to do battle."
Unless Olwe is actually another character picking up your sword, and then you are godmodding.
4. Emote only what can be perceived...seen, heard,, touched...tasted.5. Use descriptives of what your body parts. Don't be afraid to clap, whistle, curl your lips, stomp your feet.6. Adjectives, adverbs and verbs are your friends.7. and final one...Speak for yourself, and only for yourself. Anything else is godmodding.
Lihan Taifun: um, hi, Phoenix-viewer doesn't believe Ael is here
Shawn Daysleeper: he is grey to me
AelKennyr Rhiano: Oh, great!
AelKennyr Rhiano kicks the viewer.
Lihan Taifun: I can hear him, but he is a cloud to me
Shawn Daysleeper kicks the viewer too
AelKennyr Rhiano: ok....let me show you a trick that sometimes work...
Lihan Taifun: woo, worked that time!
Shawn Daysleeper: I see you now
AelKennyr Rhiano: oh...yay! Go to Advanced > rendering> wire frame....click on that and allow the whole screen to go wireframe...then change back. Sometimes,. that will get things sorted, too
Shawn Daysleeper: wow cool
Lihan Taifun: but why you going to wireframe should affect other people's viewers -- that is mysterious, not that I am going to argue with sucess
Shawn Daysleeper: unless it is Ael's avi that is messed up
AelKennyr Rhiano: I meant for you to...to sort out your viewer...not mine.
Lihan Taifun: so what did you do this time to sort out our viewers?
AelKennyr Rhiano: I rebaked...5 times
Lihan Taifun: erm, well, ok
AelKennyr Rhiano: There have been a lot of viewer issues lately....I have been hearing a lot of chatter from other groups on it.
{AelKennyr Rhiano gave you avataRPlay Magazine - Feb 2011.}
Zryonotralionxus: Uhm, what is the magazine thing?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Before we get started...this is an issue of avataRPlay Magazine. They want to do an article with pictures on the Fellowship of hte 4th Age and our rp.
Shawn Daysleeper: we wear it
Zryonotralionxus: oh. . .
Shawn Daysleeper: yay :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: They are a very large magazine with a big circulation, and I have just been talking to one of their writers...We were highly commended for our rp style, storyline, creativity, and the quality of our rp. I just wanted to start tonight sharing that with you.
Shawn Daysleeper: smiles
AelKennyr Rhiano: This is a way to start off this discussion tonight by stressing that what you do, how you act in rp...it really does matter.
Zryonotralionxus Resident nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: That our rp, which is very small compared to so many out there, can get such notice...that is a true testament to the quality of our rp and our rpers.
Shawn Daysleeper: yes it does!
AelKennyr Rhiano: It means that fundamentally you all do something very very RIGHT! Would you like to guess what we were complimented most about? AelKennyr Rhiano smiles
Lihan Taifun: what?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Story and emoting.
Shawn Daysleeper: awesome :)
Zryonotralionxus: Uhm, story
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes :)
Zryonotralionxus: darn lag
AelKennyr Rhiano: lol
Zryonotralionxus: And I was this close to winning!
Shawn Daysleeper: ✦✧HaHaHa✦✧
AelKennyr Rhiano: heh heh heh
AelKennyr Rhiano: So...my compliments to you three. Certainly, Shawn and Lihan work very hard on the 4th Age, and so these compliments go to them especially.
Shawn Daysleeper blushes
AelKennyr Rhiano: But indeed, all should take pride and share in the praise. We are all part of the rp.
Lihan Taifun: yeah, but I'm the one who doesn't believe in the emoting :)
Shawn Daysleeper: my complements to all of you too
AelKennyr Rhiano: You don't?
Zryonotralionxus: Well, I am not in it though I do hope to make the cut soon. But those who are I have enjoyed reading the story thus far
AelKennyr Rhiano: You do realize that you are a very good emoter, right?
Lihan Taifun: no! I believe telling what is going on in your character's mind is good writing! I was taught that it was good roleplay, and I haven't heard a convincing argument against it
AelKennyr Rhiano: Ok....I think we are falling into semantics...let me back up and clarify a few things...I don't a misconception created.
Let's stop.
There is a difference between a narrative disclosure of what is going on inside a rp character... and a rper depending upon constantly using certain ....words...to convey what would better be described in actions. So let me explain this carefully and I will try to give many examples. Because this is important, and I want to be clear.
Lihan Taifun: please do
AelKennyr Rhiano: Shawn, I am going to pick on you, ok?
Zryonotralionxus Resident listens
Shawn Daysleeper: ok
Shawn Daysleeper: ✦✧HaHaHa✦✧
AelKennyr Rhiano: ok
AelKennyr Rhiano: First...let us go back and remember what emoting is supposed to do. What are the purposes? 1. to respond 2. to allow others to respond to you 3. to show action 4. to show emotion 5. to move the rp story.
If Shawn is here, with us and we are all rping... And all Shawn does in the rp is the Following.....
Shawn listens to the conversation that Ael is having and thinks that it is very boring.
Shawn thinks to himself that he already knows by sensing that Ael is going to talk more about emoting and he knows that Lihan will disagree.
Shawn realizes instantly that Zyron will die a horrible death because he has seen it suddenly.
Exactly WHAT has he given the rest of us to rp with?
Shawn Daysleeper: nothing
AelKennyr Rhiano: nothing
Shawn Daysleeper: I have controlled the rp
AelKennyr Rhiano: Can we react to it? Can we interact with him? Does it move the story along?
Zryonotralionxus: Well, it can be reacted to, though very hard and can get annoying after a while
AelKennyr Rhiano: How? How can you react to it?
Zryonotralionxus: Hmm, been a while, but had attempted RP with ones who post very little if anything to work with, so I tend to post something to hopefully restart the RP or hold the others hand through it. But I guess it is not reacting to it I would be doing as it would be just trying to move it forward out of the rut
AelKennyr Rhiano smiles and nods.
Zryonotralionxus: but after three times of doing that, I would eventually draw blanks
AelKennyr Rhiano: Didn't mean to seem to put you on the spot, Zyron. But I am so glad you said that.
Zryonotralionxus: Nah, I put myself there in a way =P
AelKennyr Rhiano: Thank you for doing so!
Lihan Taifun: so in that case your "reaction" would not really be to what meta-Shawn had just posted, but more like trying to work around it?
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes, exactly, Lihan. You would have to work around it.
Zryonotralionxus: Yes, and often with even one line posters, us who para post tend to have to do that allot to make things to keep the RP going
AelKennyr Rhiano: Now, to get a little finely tuned...here is what often you see in rp...tell me if this sounds familar...
Let us say we are in rp and we are discussing the threat of the Nightmare Tear's in Aman...and we are trying to find a solution.
Shawn posts.... "Shawn suddenly has a vision of how this can be done. He thinks to himself that Ulmo has given him the vision he needs, and all he has to do is now go and slay the evil Drow Matron.”
How many times have you been in a rp and someone thinks to themselves or sense something they really, in truth, have no busy being able to sense or to know?
Zryonotralionxus: I see that issue allot in D&D rps
AelKennyr Rhiano: So there are two things that sometimes work hand-in-hand with "thoughts" or rp expressions that others cannot act upon.
AelKennyr Rhiano: 1. If a rper is constantly doing this, they are making themselves unavailable to be rp with...
Zryonotralionxus: and being Shawns post was all thoughts, the only post that could be made to it would be, "Zryono sits and stairs at the quiet elf in boredom."
AelKennyr Rhiano: 2. the possibility of godmodding and metagaming dramatically increases.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Precisely...because Zryon...a good rper cannot respond to his thoughts.
Lihan Taifun: Zryon has a point there
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes, he has a very good point.
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
Zryonotralionxus: Or I could ponder just eating him and ending the painful ordeal!
Shawn Daysleeper: eep
Zryonotralionxus Resident grins. And truly, by the time I would have to post that, the RP would be pretty dead if not beyond
AelKennyr Rhiano: Now, that is a far cry from the kind of rp you are talking about Lihan. You are talking about something more complex and it does add to the rp. Even if what you are doing, again, is not necessary something that lends to rp with another person.
You are talking about character development.
This is the difference, if I may....
"Shawn sits and watched the fire as he listens to Ael drone on and on. He allows his eyes to become unfocused and thinks, 'Why are we going over this again? Haven't we gone over this again and again?' But he draws a sigh. 'I guess it is better than doing my laundry. Gods, and I have a ton of it too.' Then he thinks about the last time he rped with Lihan and smiles."
Shawn Daysleeper: hehe
Zryonotralionxus Resident really considers eating the mute elf
Shawn Daysleeper: oh I am learning lol. Shawn Daysleeper points at Ael "he is saying all of this"
Lihan Taifun: you are learning, but you are starting to pick up Ael-like language. I've never heard the real Shawn say "Gods"
Zryonotralionxus: Uhm, I did not hear any one speaking =P
AelKennyr Rhiano: oops
Shawn Daysleeper: oh ya right. I thought all of that. you guys don't know what i am thinking
AelKennyr Rhiano: lol ok, ok... But is there a difference in what is now going on? You still cannot respond to his thoughts...but what is different?
Zryonotralionxus: Nope, all I know is if one is not going to talk and amuse us dragons, the next course is dinner!
Lihan Taifun: Now he is getting glassy-eyed, and showing some physical symptoms
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes
Zryonotralionxus: Well, he smiled at least so one can wonder what he is smiling about?
Lihan Taifun: and Zryon has good cause to consider eating the quiet one
Shawn Daysleeper: hey!
AelKennyr Rhiano: Also, when you read back over the rp...you will see he is starting to also show you more about his character.
You cannot act on it...but it is the basis of character development. The solo rps we see? Those are often very good studies in character development.
Shawn Daysleeper: yes they are
Zryonotralionxus: And being he is smiling, he is probably thinking my scales look funny and I should eat him just for thinking such things!
Lihan Taifun: oooh, miscommunication! always a good ploy!
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes! See...this is much better. We still don't know what he is thinking. But we do have something to react to. and later...we get to see a little of who Shawn is in the rp.
Zryonotralionxus: Nope, just can only assume or guess ourselves which than can vary from one player to the other
AelKennyr Rhiano: That is much, much different....than...simply an ineffective way to rp.
Zryonotralionxus: Uhm, that is if he makes it to later!
AelKennyr Rhiano: Pardon me one moment...coughing...need a glass of water..brb..
Lihan Taifun: oh dear, ok
Zryonotralionxus: Is he coughing in laughter?
Lihan Taifun: I'm now looking forward to reading about Shawn being dragged out of his pleasant daydream by an irate dragon accusing him of laughing at the dragon
Shawn Daysleeper sighs
Zryonotralionxus: Oh yes, never laugh at a live dragon ;) Ten points to who kows who said that famous phrase!
Shawn Daysleeper: Tolkein? I don't know
AelKennyr Rhiano: back sorry
Shawn Daysleeper: np dear friend
Zryonotralionxus Resident playes the Jeopardy them music. Well, one of his characters
Shawn Daysleeper: Bilbo
Zryonotralionxus: Yes!
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes...sorry...change in weather....:(
Shawn Daysleeper: he dealt with the dragon
Shawn Daysleeper: ok, cool
Zryonotralionxus: My favorite part of the story!
Shawn Daysleeper wants his points ✦✧HaHaHa✦✧
Zryonotralionxus: Yes, and Welcome back Ael!
AelKennyr Rhiano: ty :)
Zryonotralionxus Resident wonders if shawn wants his points since he didn't speak of them. =P
Lihan Taifun can hardly breathe for laughing
Shawn Daysleeper: ummm Zry, where are my points?
AelKennyr Rhiano shakes his head and sips his water.
Zryonotralionxus Resident grins, "I will jot them all down latter in some fashion!"
AelKennyr Rhiano: There is one thing we have to remember... even when we cannot respond to a thing in the rp...once it is put out there, in any form, we have been exposed to it.
Zryonotralionxus: exposed sounds sooo, icky
AelKennyr Rhiano: lol
AelKennyr Rhiano: I think, Lihan, you are referring to getting inside the character's head to see more of who they are, what motivates, what is behind their actions...am I right?
Shawn Daysleeper: yay :)
Lihan Taifun: yes
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: That is a lot different than using "thinks to himself," "senses," "knows," "suddenly realizes." etc,. etc, to take the place of emoting. in the rp. Is that all any clearer?
Lihan Taifun: it is for me
Shawn Daysleeper: yes thank you
AelKennyr Rhiano: And what you are talking about...that is good rp...so long as it does not take the place of emoting but is used to augment and refine the way you are rping.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Does everyone see the difference? It is a very important one.
Zryonotralionxus: I think I do
AelKennyr Rhiano: Shawn and I last night were talking about a rper. And here is what happens when you are in a scene with them...
Ael looks down, his eyes avert, a red flush to his cheeks. His voice is quiet when he speaks and his words barely carry throughout the hallway. A tear rolls down his cheek.
"X" senses somehow he is sad.
"Sense?" Gee, you can't tell by looking? :P
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
Zryonotralionxus: Well. . . . He could have stumped a toe?
AelKennyr Rhiano: This rper spends more time "knowing" things and "sensing" things than paying attention to the fellow rpers, so obvious cues are missing the mark.
Lihan Taifun: does he ever get around to doing something with poor sad Ael?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Nope
Shawn Daysleeper: poor Ael
AelKennyr Rhiano: he only responds to statements and then only haphazardly because he is locked into "sensing" and into what he is going to say next. That is the other trap when you are using those kind of self reflective statements. It creates a mindset where you are spending more time thinking about what you are doing to say or do next than trying responding to those around you.
Zryonotralionxus: true
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: A good emote for that situation? "X" watched the tear roll down Ael's cheek. just that is perfect.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Under 10 words and you have engaged your fellow rper and responded and can be responded to.
Zryonotralionxus: True, shows he is paying attention and seeing the picture the other posted
Lihan Taifun: Who in this conversation is being tempted to do too much thinking about his next line?
Zryonotralionxus: Though still, "X" is still quiet like that mute laughing elf!
AelKennyr Rhiano: It should be Ael or another person in the rp.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Alot of times we resort to revealing our emotions or thoughts in bald statements that do not allow others to respond because we feel rushed. Slow down. Rp is about quality and fun. For thing, when you slow down, you allow others the chance to respond to you.
Zryonotralionxus: ok, that brings up a thought/question I have been pondering
AelKennyr Rhiano: ok
Zryonotralionxus: Me being a para post type RPer at times, the Rpes I always find to work best is ones which the players stick to a response in turn setting, where once all those involve had posted their first post, they stay in that order through the rp.
AelKennyr Rhiano nods. I am familiar with that convention, yes.
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
Zryonotralionxus: Often, when trying to RP with ones who post one line or so and everyone is posting randomly, it does tend to get a bit hard for one to follow or keep their post in tune with everyones posts, especially when it takes more time to replay to several characters
AelKennyr Rhiano nods again. The convention of which you speak was very popular in the early days of internet rp when things were very text based. It was a way to establish order and to allow everyone a chance to post, and there are very distinct advantages.
Zryonotralionxus: so which is the norm here for SL? Or is this depending on the group or those involved in the RP?
AelKennyr Rhiano: However it has some distinct disadvantages, too...It can create very stilted and artifically sounding rp at time. It really depends upon the group, Zyron..and that is a good question, btw.
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AelKennyr Rhiano: Overall, you will find that most groups do not follow that round robin typ of text based rp.
Zryonotralionxus: I ask cause I tend to like to make some reply to everyones post, even if it be a simple nod to their words or statement. but I do know some people bore with para rpers
AelKennyr Rhiano: I think that you will find two very large camps of rpers in sl...those who favor one or two lines of conversation and heavy dependency upon a rp or combat hud.. and then text based rpers.
Zryonotralionxus Resident nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: And we are somewhere in the middle with heavy leanings toward text based rp.
Zryonotralionxus: even in D&D, I always seemed to lean toward the heavy text RPG over the combat
AelKennyr Rhiano: Actually, when I get comments about "boring" I often hear that in reference to one line rp than to text based rp.
Zryonotralionxus: and even in combat, I still made large posts with my actions
AelKennyr Rhiano: And I do make a distinction between para rp which means "paragraph" and text based rp.
Zryonotralionxus: how so?
AelKennyr Rhiano: A common para rp response in sl would be anyway from 10 to over 50 words in length. A text based rp can be anywhere from 5 to 25, on the average.
Zryonotralionxus: hmm
Zryonotralionxus: I do believe I am new to the text based term then
Lihan Taifun: if you tried to make each of those "nods" into a true paragraph, it might make for very slow reading
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes. Most of what you see in our rp is much shorter text than people who call themselves para rpers would do. And our text based rp recognizes that sometimes...one word does the trick.
Zryonotralionxus: oh, so then it can flex depending on what is available to post to?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Emoting should ALWAYS be in response to the situation, not some rule. Unless you are godmodding or metagaming or violating RP limits.
If saying, "Ael laughs." is what is appropriate, don't take 85 words to tell us. However, if all you do is one or two word responses, then what are you adding to the rp?
As you are beginning to rp...make it a habit, now, of slowing down and responding to someone, not to yourself. You should gage your response not to what you THINK someone will do or say but to what they actually do and say. And the only way to do that is to let them have their say. Some people type their responses first on notecards so they can see it all clearly, especially if English is hard for them.
AelKennyr Rhiano: And, as I have said before...if you are among a group of rpers who insist on rping at breakneck speed do one of the following:
1. Tell them, OOC, that the pace is too fast for you. You can do this and be polite. ((I am very sorry, but I cannot keep up with this pace. Please, may we slow down.))
2. Continue on with your post and then, after you have done so, give them time to respond to you.
3, Cease the rp. If they will not slow down for you. They are not rping WITH you, but AT you.
Zryonotralionxus: With us who para, I am often typing my next post right after making one, cause with a para rp, you replay to everything you can to make your post
AelKennyr Rhiano: I do not agree, with all due respect, Zyron. If you are constantly typing your response before you know the response of others, you are not truly rping WITH them but AT them.
Zryonotralionxus: No, not meant was that, meaning that when in turn, after the next posts I am already starting to reply to their post then continuing as others go in sync
AelKennyr Rhiano: Ahhhh I see. ok...I understand now.
Zryonotralionxus: it is a method picked up to prevent others from waiting for a para post. you in a way are pretty much ready to post come your turn cause you have been replying as others post
AelKennyr Rhiano: Again, yes, that is a matter of style and each style has a reason and purpose. For large groups, the style that Zyron is referring to works very well. yes, I got it now..ty for clarifying it. :)
Zryonotralionxus: but it does not work well when you are amongst many one line posters, because often you can not reply efficiently to all so quickly
AelKennyr Rhiano: Often they won't let you.
Zryonotralionxus: yes, buy the time I am ready to hit enter, most of my post is ancient history already
AelKennyr Rhiano: I know I promise we would have fun and games tonight, but it was very important to make sure that we had a clear understanding of what we were talking about. Perhaps we can have the games next time. I confess, I do get very frustrated with people who insist in rping over me rather than allowing me to rp with them.
May I leave us with some pointers on emoting and we pick this up next week? And please, first...has any of this helped?
Shawn Daysleeper: thank you Ael
Lihan Taifun: I appreciated getting this clarified tonight
Shawn Daysleeper: oh yes
AelKennyr Rhiano: oh, no, I am glad for the chance to clarify myself...please, I am no good to you, if I leave things unclear.
Zryonotralionxus: I as always have gotten much from the meeting
AelKennyr Rhiano blushes and smiles Let me give you some points to consider for emoting.
1. Slow down. Take your time and respond in a way that helps the rp.
2. Emotes are not always grammatically correct. Don't be afraid of using dashes, commas, or run on sentences. It should, however, make sense.
3. Try to stick to one pronoun usage.....for example:
Use either "Olwe picks up his sword and prepares to do battle."
or "I pick up my sword and prepares to do battle."
NOT
"Olwe picks up my sword and prepares to do battle."
Unless Olwe is actually another character picking up your sword, and then you are godmodding.
4. Emote only what can be perceived...seen, heard,, touched...tasted.
5. Use descriptives of what your body parts. Don't be afraid to clap, whistle, curl your lips, stomp your feet.
6. Adjectives, adverbs and verbs are your friends.
7. and final one...Speak for yourself, and only for yourself. Anything else is godmodding.
Zryonotralionxus: and thanks much for your time and help
AelKennyr Rhiano: Thank you You all are what makes the 4th age rp fun!
Shawn Daysleeper smiles yay :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: I am glad I helped, Lihan. You do great emotes, and you express your rp characters very well.
Zryonotralionxus: I can not wait to be a part of it if things so go as such
AelKennyr Rhiano: WE cannot wait for you to be a part of things. :P
Shawn Daysleeper: yes
Lihan Taifun: that is good to hear, because after last week I was worried I was doing it all wrong
AelKennyr Rhiano: nope, you are doing it VERY right.
Zryonotralionxus: I am working on it, just got way too many irons in the fire it seems besides making sure I keep things inline
AelKennyr Rhiano: We just needed to slow down, look at it all carefully and I needed to give better examples I think.
Lihan Taifun: I'm looking forward to having Zryon's character in the story, too
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes!
Shawn Daysleeper: me too
Zryonotralionxus: I hit a small mental block so need to sit and work through that