Fireside Chat -- Emoting

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Present:

AelKennyr Rhiano   

Harumi Oanomochi

Shawn Daysleeper   

Lihan Taifun             

Summary:

Would Display Names be a practical alternative to the current titlers/repeaters? Advantages: easier to use, and lower lag. Disadvantages: mixes IC and OOC, and can only be changed one per week. That will be a question for the next RP Leaders meeting.

Review from last week:

• What propelled your character to become who he/she is?

• Are you comfortable with your character's race and occupation? You will be with that character for a long time.

• How do your character's surroundings influence him/her? Which elements of the surroundings would your character pay special attention to?

In writing descriptions into your roleplaying (which does take longer than writing one-line replies), be aware of the pace of the other players. You may need to slow down to let everyone else reply, or speed up (write two sentences at a time instead of an entire chapter), or ask your partners to slow down a bit to let you type. Be considerate of people who type slower than you. Non-native speakers of English, and people with older computers or slow internet connections are often limited in how fast they can type.

The Fourth Age style of publishing notecards (which are the story posts on this website) is more work for the editors, but it has a number of advantages:

• Keeps the public versions within our roleplay limits. (Too-graphic scenes are replaced, in the published version, with less-graphic summaries.)

• A role-play can be redone if needed. (This editor has experienced scenes where an important character crashed, or there was a major out-of-character interruption, and has heard of cases where everyone simply agreed the session could have been done better.)

• Godmodding and metagaming can be circumvented.

• Chat lag gets cleaned up.

• Any mistakes can be corrected.

“Emoting is simply drawing a mental image with words. Setting the stage for your spoken words.” However, not all descriptive writing is “emoting”.

“Emote nothing another cannot notice about you. Emotes are cues that rpers around you can respond to.”

“Some tips that will help you emote better:

1. Slow down when you are typing your responses. People should be polite and wait on you.

2. Wait on others before responding yourself.

3. Try to be descriptive in your emotes and describe actions that involve your other senses besides sight

4. Do not be afraid of run-on sentences to describe your action or reaction but do not use it to hog the rp action.

5. Use the 10-25 rule.....a good emote will usually have no less than five words and on average around 10 to 25 for an excellent emote.

Again, these are tip, and you should gage using these tips against your rp needs.”

You will react to your character's interpretation of another character's emotes. But remember it is always your character's interpretation. You neither know nor control the other character's thoughts. You cannot (except in unusual cases of telepathy) “sense” what another character is thinking, or is going to do.

“Let's think about what emoting is supposed to do? What are the purposes?

1. to respond

2. to allow others to respond to you

3. to show action

4. to show emotion

5. to move the rp story.”

Telling your character's mental state does none of these things, and leaves the other characters with nothing to respond to. Describing your character's body language is much more helpful.

A conversation that consists only of one-word replies doesn't give the other characters much to respond to, either.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    You know, I just realized something we will to have to discuss at a rp leader's meeting... Since there are viewers like Phoenix that allow you to change your name and a lot do like Harumi here....do we allow that in lieu of the Tolkien titler for our Tolkien based rpers?

Lihan Taifun:              hmmm, interesting question

Shawn Daysleeper:    good question

Lihan Taifun:              it doesn't change the chat name, does it? or does it?

AelKennyr Rhiano:    The advantage is that is spares us another thing hanging over our head, literally. But the downside is that it really does mix OOC and IC...yes, it does

Lihan Taifun:              it must be a setting, which name show in the chat

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes... Under edit, display names

Harumi Oanomochi: it's in preferences General

Lihan Taifun:              Preferences >> General and then what?

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I found it looking under Edit==> display names

AelKennyr Rhiano:    the edit menu at the top of the screen.

Lihan Taifun:              I can find that Edit menu, to change MY display name

Lihan Taifun:              the titlers are certainly a source of lag

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes, there are

Harumi Oanomochi: oddly enough, I'm seeing Harumi Oanomochi instead of Echuir of ithildor right now.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    to me you are speaking as Echiur

Shawn Daysleeper:    but changing one's name to their Tolkein rp character's name is mixing IC with OOC, when not in rp

Harumi Oanomochi: Well, in my case it's who I am in and out of RP

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes...that is what concerns me most...Also it would send a mixed signal to new rpers

Lihan Taifun:              I SEE her floating name as Echuir, but her chat is showing as Harumi

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I think we need to think about this...and decide how to approach this :) I can see cons and pros for using this option.

Lihan Taifun:              yes, exactly

Shawn Daysleeper:    it would be pro for rp purposes yes

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes, and solve a lot of lag issues

Lihan Taifun:              and possibly for some people, only changing once a week could be an issue

Harumi Oanomochi: that's true

Lihan Taifun:              several issues to think about

AelKennyr Rhiano:    even the most experienced of us have trouble juggling the /99 repeater at times.

Lihan Taifun:              even with Phoenix letting you set your default channel

Harumi Oanomochi: yes...it's hard to remember when to do it and when not...I find myself typing /99 when I'm not in rp sometimes. LOL

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes, That is still a bit unwieldly

Lihan Taifun:              and then you need a second set of gestures, set to /99

AelKennyr Rhiano:    nod nod nod

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I hope you don't feel like we picked on you, Echuir. I mean,. Harumi.

Harumi Oanomochi: not at all...it's a consideration you have to take into account. :-)

Shawn Daysleeper:    are you Harumi? or Echuir?

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Yes, I think we should :)

Lihan Taifun:              oh, I though we were considering whether to all follow her example :)

Harumi Oanomochi: Echuir...Harumi is too Japanese and Echuirbaneth means the same thing in both Elvish and Japanese, Springtime Beauty.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes, for the fellowship.

Harumi Oanomochi: I've wanted to change it all the time for a while and now I can...I wear it all the time.

Lihan Taifun:              aw, that's nice

Harumi Oanomochi: BUT...that said, if you think it's going to be a problem, I'll consider changing it.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I think you have presented us with something we needed to really consider and had not... And that is always good.

Harumi Oanomochi: :-)

Shawn Daysleeper smiles

AelKennyr Rhiano:    A lot of people are changing their display names, and I know I have not thought about how that might impact rp...so, it is not a problem but a chance to discuss this option :)

Harumi Oanomochi: Okay. And you might consider polling the rp populace as to their preferences...keep the titler or go with display names.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Well....let's pick up where we left off last time?

Shawn Daysleeper:    ok :)

AelKennyr Rhiano:    creating and breathing life into your rp character and move into emoting, if time permits.... :)

As we discussed last...when developing your rp character, the first thing you need to ask yourself is who is your character? Where is he from? What propelled him into his line of work? Did he become a warrior to avenge the slaying of his family by balrogs? Is he a wizard because he has been romanced by the power of the Ainu from a young age? Who are you...when you are playing you the character?

Another consideration is to ensure you'll be happy playing the race or occupation you've chosen. Breathing life into a character for several months can be a bit counterproductive and sometimes depressing if you decide you can't stomach the requirements of your job/rank/title/race.

And we also, I think. touched briefly upon..."How do I start to create the personality of my rp character?"

A good way to start is to take a look at the environment, your surroundings. Do you live in a city? A forest? Are you surrounded by impending doom around the realm's borders? There are simply so many different environmental cues that can help you begin your story as a character. Be a little hard to be a city elf on a rural rp sim. Or a dragon in a china shop!

Lihan Taifun:              Alqualonde would be a fairly big city, wouldn't it? if the inhabitants hadn't all vanished

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes! So, in rp, I make several references to the stillness and emptiness of the city, to create the feeling of my environment. A large city devoid of its population. I talk about the absence of familiar sounds, or voices, or how quiet the palace is.

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes, it is very convincing :)

AelKennyr Rhiano:    This would profoundly affect Nole or Olwe...but it might not affect Nienna so much...why?

Lihan Taifun:              1) I don't live here, so I wasn't used to the sounds 2) I'm not so used to the impact of physical environment

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes!

Shawn Daysleeper:    nods

Lihan Taifun:              of course, it is hard writing that sort of thing, while carrying on a conversation at the same time

Harumi Oanomochi: very good observations.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Rangers should notice their natural environment in great detail.....but a sailor....perhaps he would not be able to tell one flower from another, but could tell you which tree would give him the best wood from which to make his ship.

Harumi Oanomochi: nods

Lihan Taifun:              and detect any tiny shift in the wind direction

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes!

Harumi Oanomochi: Echuir has learned to sail but she is primarily an herbologist and healer, so she's very oriented to plants as a source of her craft.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    as for difficulty in making these observations during rp...that will be handled in discussions on emoting...but that is the biggest difference between one-line rp and text based rp.

Harumi Oanomochi nods in agreement

AelKennyr Rhiano:    One-line rp is very rapid fire and it does have its uses. However, by its very nature, it deprives the rp of great enrichening description, and it does make for boring reading, if you are looking at the chat log.

Harumi Oanomochi: Yes, I'm really warming up to the text based rp now...it reads like a novel but also real life, because of the inclusion of imagery

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes it does

Lihan Taifun:              yet I feel like there is pressure to keep up the flow of the conversation -- it would take me 10 or 15 minutes to fine-tune a paragraph to my liking

Harumi Oanomochi: and waiting for a long-winded para-player can often disrupt the flow and activity of single line rp.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I understand, and I can feel that way at times, as well, Lihan. When we rp with people who are used to and use one-line rp all the time, we can often stumble across a constant breech of rp etiquette.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    In the middle of both styles...there is moderation.

Lihan Taifun:              the paragraphs I am most used to are not being done real-time, so if it takes an hour to write a reply it isn't a problem, where here it would be

Harumi Oanomochi: yes.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Depends upon your rp partners. The rp Canelle and I did last night took about an hour, and if flowed fairly well...But she had to learn to slow down, and I had to learn to speed up a little.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    And frankly, that is why we have edit...to fix and adjust here and there :)

Lihan Taifun:              well, that means one person gets to edit their lines

Shawn Daysleeper:    there has to be a compromise between everyone involved.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes While some may complain about our edit process, it does keep the rp in compliance with our rp limitations...allows for rp to be re-done if needed, and allows us to circumvent any problems like godmodding or metagaming or just sheer mistakes.

Lihan Taifun:              and makes the transcripts more fun to read

AelKennyr Rhiano:    To date, we have never had to completely retract a rp notecard. That is pretty good, I think :)

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes they are better wirtten

Harumi Oanomochi: They're wonderful reading really.

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes they are

Harumi Oanomochi: The editor in me wants to gather them all up and publish them in a book length. ;-)

Lihan Taifun:              heh heh

Harumi Oanomochi: Not that I'm volunteering. LOL

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Let's talk a little about emoting, since we are on that subject....

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Emoting is simply drawing a mental image with words. Setting the stage for your spoken words. Emotes compared to para-posting are real life actions/reactions/emotions vs fantasy roleplay. However, the skills are interchangeable. They can be used in either setting. I learned the skills in roleplay and drew upon them when I stepped out of roleplay.

Lihan Taifun:              now I'm lost

AelKennyr Rhiano stops. Let's break it down into what emoting is supposed to do...would that help?

Lihan Taifun:              ok

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Emoting. This is the most difficult thing in rp. Good emoting is only possible if other players are willing to give each other some time.

Harumi Oanomochi: Like this? ---Echuir starts to sit but thinks better of it and moves to the table where she picks up the flagon and pours a drink of mead. <--- emoting

AelKennyr Rhiano:    no, and yes

Harumi Oanomochi: okay...grin

AelKennyr Rhiano:    hahaha "Thinks better of it" is technically not emoting at all.

Harumi Oanomochi: true...she thought it, and I should have said, "paused as if she thought better of it"

AelKennyr Rhiano:    nope, still technically not emoting. Follow this rule and you will find you will do well. Emote nothing another cannot notice about you

Harumi Oanomochi is lost

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Emotes are cues that rpers around you can respond to.

Lihan Taifun:              perhaps you need to explain what you are using "emote" to mean

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I cannot respond to "thinks about". However.....let me give you an example, please.

Shawn Daysleeper smiles

AelKennyr Rhiano leans forward, resting his elbows on his legs...buries his face in his hands, shaking his head slowly backward and forward. A muffled sigh escapes his hands as his hair hides his face from view. You can respond to every detail in that statement.

Harumi Oanomochi nods in agreement.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    You can conjecture about what is going on with me..why I am acting so...it is left for you to interpret why and what is going on.

Lihan Taifun:              it is a valid and useful way of writing, but I wonder that it is called "emoting", when it seems to be the very opposite

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Honestly, I don't have the answer, Lihan :P

Some tips that will help you emote better: 1. Slow down when you are typing your responses. People should be polite and wait on you. 2. Wait on others before responding yourself. 3. Try to be descriptive in your emotes and describe actions that involve your other senses besides sight (Belenos' nostrils flared as she raises her head and slowly moves it from side to side, an ear swivelling forward, and her eyes rapidly scanning the skies above them.) 4. Do not be afraid of run-on sentences to describe your action or reaction but do not use it to hog the rp action. 5. Use the 10-25 rule.....a good emote will usually have no less than five words and on average around 10 to 25 for an excellent emote. Again, these are tip, and you should gage using these tips against your rp needs.

There is another rule to good emoting. Do not ascribe emotions to others. Also do not ascribe actions to another. By doing either you are controlling how another character acts or feels to some extent. Never forces your perceptions of a rp character on that character in such a way you are exhibiting a control over them. That is a form of godmodding. You should instead notice how the other character is behaving and respond to their behaving and statements.

AelKennyr Rhiano pauses to allow comment.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    ((that is NOT an emote))

AelKennyr Rhiano pauses (this is however))

Emoting works well when you bring in details; the feel of the wind, the heat of the day, for example. However, not every situation calls for detailed emoting. Sometimes something short-- "He Kneels."-- is all the situation needs.

Good emoting is only possible if other players are willing to give each other some time.

Harumi Oanomochi: Agreed.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Also, please, so many non-native English speakers get so frustrated with rp...they get tired of people just running over them in rp because they type their responses slower...the same about people with older computers or who just plain type slow.

Shawn Daysleeper:    nods

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I have had to go OOC and ask people around me to please slow down...it is an earnest request, and I hope you all do the same when you need.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Please remember, my tips...they ARE tips. Use your own judgement about what works best for you and still makes you all you wish to be.

Harumi Oanomochi: On the other hand, sometimes by the time you've typed the perfect emote, the action has changed to the point where it either doesn't matter or is not according to where the action has already gone. It can get frustrating when the action is going quickly.

Lihan Taifun:              yes, or even when you have typed some good dialog

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes, I have encountered that myself

Harumi Oanomochi nods

Shawn Daysleeper:    I still type it out and it gets straightened out in the edit.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Good rp manners require you to pace the action so that everyone in the rp can express themselves. And if you notice, in edits, when that happens I try, in all cases to ....what Shawn says. lol

Harumi Oanomochi: I think we all have, but it helps if each rper tries to gauge a sense of the rhythm of the rp at that moment...get a sense of pace.

Lihan Taifun:              I do that in the discussion group transcripts. I didn't know how much the notecard editors straightend out the chat lag

AelKennyr Rhiano:    The longer you rp wth a group, then the more the group finds its pace. But...remember, the larger the group, the more likely that is to happen, and that is where edit helps outs.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Let's think about what emoting is supposed to do? What are the purposes? 1. to respond 2. to allow others to respond to you 3. to show action 4. to show emotion 5. to move the rp story.

Too often we fall into the pitfall of describing our thoughts and emotions, and unless we are in a room of mindreaders, we are giving other rpers information they should not act upon. If we do this on occasion, there is no harm done. But when we do this, we can limit the range of responses the other rpers have to your actions. You don't tell people what you think or feel. Show them. Let them gather it from your descriptives.

In general, try not to use less than five words...now...here is what I mean.

Suppose two rp characters are talking to each other IC, and the second will only say, "yes," "no," and "nods." After a while, how would that affect rp? For one things, it makes it hard for the first character to react.

And the number one thing that can get you lynched in any rp setting?

Reveal rp plot twists and turns or what the other rper is about to do....by the famous:  "Ael knows that soon Shawn will head to bed and wear green jammies, drink tea, and turn out the light, because he can sense it."

Shawn Daysleeper:    ‚ú¶‚úßHaHaHa‚ú¶‚úß Shawn Daysleeper wears grey jammies

AelKennyr Rhiano:    No, you don't SENSE what another rp character is doing...not unless you are: 1. a mindreader 2. married to them 3. some sort of diety.

Harumi Oanomochi: Unless you're casting a spell that lets you do it, and then you can only "attempt" to do it.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    If you sense something about another rp character, have a good reasonable, logical, airtight case which allows you to do it. And the spell has to be "attempted" with the possibility of failing.

Harumi Oanomochi: absolutely...it's up to the person being spelled to react one way or the other...or a roll of the dice.

Lihan Taifun:              that would be a whole night's discussion

Harumi Oanomochi: and then it should be agreed upon OOC for it to work properly

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yes! or in consultation with a rp judge or gamesmaster.

Harumi Oanomochi: nods

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I will share with you that we have a resident so cognizant of our rp guidelines, he asked me for approval to be able to tp in and out of Alqualonde. And he does not rp!

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Comments? Observations?

Harumi Oanomochi: Once again it all boils down to consideration for the other players.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Emoting is both the hardest and most rewarding thing to master and once you do, you will truly enjoy the rp.

Lihan Taifun:              is this the point where you say "everything you do is probably wrong ... but relax and enjoy yourself?"

Harumi Oanomochi: Lihan, hehehe...good point

AelKennyr Rhiano:    no, I would never say "everything you do is wrong."

Lihan Taifun:              noooo, but you might give "advice" that was impossible to actually carry out

AelKennyr Rhiano:    But I will say, "The point is to relax, have fun...the point is to enjoy yourself."

Shawn Daysleeper:    smiles yes

Harumi Oanomochi: And eventually, we all fall on our arses, but the thing is to apologize OOC if necessary, and go forth from there...time wounds all heels. *wink*

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Advice is a tricky thing...it seldom "fits" all situations.

We have a really good rp group, and I have to tell you that I have never made a rp judgement call in which the parties were not kind, cooperative, respectful of me and others, and we did not end the whole thing on a good and positive note. This group really is a "fellowship." And that is something to be proud of.

Harumi Oanomochi: *smiles*

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes!

AelKennyr Rhiano:    People who seek to cause problems...they do not last with us...We do not create an environment where they want to stay.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Let me end this discussion with the recognition on my part that I AM fallible. I make mistakes all the time and I know you will, too. Mistakes are part of the nature of things...we correct and go one.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    on*

AelKennyr Rhiano:    See? :P

Harumi Oanomochi: ;-)

Shawn Daysleeper:    smiles

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Shawn can tell you...I've called myself...on myself .....lol.

Shawn Daysleeper:    true lol

AelKennyr Rhiano:    I do try to not make impossible demands or harsh judgements rpwise. I hope I have succeeded in that.

Shawn Daysleeper:    thank you for what you do Ael

Harumi Oanomochi: Indeed

AelKennyr Rhiano:    But, if I do...I am not the only elder in the fellowship, and every rper has accesss to the rp leaders and the leadership of the fellowship. Use them! :)

Shawn Daysleeper:    smiles

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Should we continue with emoting or is there something you would like to discuss more next time? We could try some practice, next week.

Harumi Oanomochi: sounds like a great idea to me

Shawn Daysleeper:    yes :)

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Ok by you, Lihan?

Lihan Taifun:              sure

AelKennyr Rhiano:    yay! Next week, we will play Emote roulette :)

Harumi Oanomochi: hahaha

Lihan Taifun:              eeep

AelKennyr Rhiano:    lol

Shawn Daysleeper:    hehe

AelKennyr Rhiano:    or Emote Round Robin...really, these can be fun.

AelKennyr Rhiano:    Thank you, so much, for all you do. each of you, to make the rp come alive.

Shawn Daysleeper:    Thank you for moderating :)

AelKennyr Rhiano blushes...my pleasure.

Harumi Oanomochi: Yes, thank you...I could not have done what you didd because I'm just now learning the Fellowship style of rp

AelKennyr Rhiano blushes...Someone helped me...now I bring their skill, I hope to you, and with your skills already...wow...you all are so amazing!

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