Present:
AelKennyr Rhiano
Shawn Daysleeper
Pinke Latte
Fifi Wickentower
Summary:
“Tonight we are looking at the point in a rper's experience when they have their rp character. They know the background, and they have some idea of their character's personality... But what to DO with them?”
One good possibility is to read the recent notecards of current rp threads and see how your character could fit into those events. Not to hijack the storyline by radically changing its direction, but adding to it in a sensible way. Then locate the other players in that storyline and discuss your ideas with them.
(A review of the current working theory of the origin of dragons: most Fourth Age dragons are mortal, but some of their original ancestors were Ainur. Tolkien himself never clearly explained in detail the origins of dragons, only that Melkor was somehow responsible.)
AelKennyr Rhiano: When I first came to sl, once, I was being interviewed, and not very kindly for the title of Olwe...I brought it with me, when that rp died...and the rp leader was being a jerk, so I stood up to leave..quite indignant. And as I gathered my dignity around me, sl took my clothes. Everything but my boxers...
Shawn Daysleeper: oh no
AelKennyr Rhiano: Which had Mighty Mouse on them.
Shawn Daysleeper: ✦✧HaHaHa✦✧
Pinke Latte: Ohh dear talk about horrible timing for SL to be borky. lol.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Yep. There I was...in My Mighty Mouse boxers. And I was so embarrassed, all I could think to do was to log and relog at home. Well, everyone there thought I had stripped in protest and they all really ripped the rp leader. And thus I got the role of Olwe...by stripping.
Shawn Daysleeper smiles
AelKennyr Rhiano: :P
Shawn Daysleeper: yay :)
Pinke Latte: *lol* that's awesome. xD
AelKennyr Rhiano: He had been putting down my clothes, my av, my hair, everything. And it was the last time he ever did it, too.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Well, while we are waiting for SL to be generous and allow people to log in clothed....let's get started. :)
Pinke Latte: Sounds good. :)
Shawn Daysleeper: ok :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: These are discussions, rather than classes, becuase everyone has something to add, I believe and we can all learn from each other. eople who are consistently here. And others float in and out. So...tonight we are looking at the point in a rper's experience when they have their rp character. They know the background, and they have some idea of their character's personality... But what to DO with them? Everyone has had that moment of "Oh, soooo....what now?"
Shawn Daysleeper: yes
AelKennyr Rhiano: Crickets chrip...birds sing...grass grows...we are clueless.
Pinke Latte: Yes definitely, sometimes it's the hardest part to get started. :) People can get shy and not want to interfere.
AelKennyr Rhiano nods. The first thing to remember...Good RP is collaborative—it is about creating a story in cooperation with others. One of the best comparisons I have heard is that RP is like improvisational theater. One actor gives and then the other also gives and so a story grows. Good RP is not about taking. So often we get so wrapped up in "OMG, OMG, I wanna rp...Me, ME, ME...erm...what do I do?" In other words, we become so self focused, we can tune out potential for ways to get into the story.
Shawn Daysleeper: I agree
AelKennyr Rhiano: One thing you can do when you are at an impasse on what to do with your character is to read the rps of others who are currently actively rping. This is not hijacking their rp. Please do not hijack or take over ongoing roleplays you happen upon, but do feel free to take a few moments to observe and find a logical, coherent way for your character to participate. Never disrespect the RP of those around you by radically changing the course of an ongoing RP simply because you weren't paying attention when you arrived. Good roleplayers know not everything has to be about themselves. So...let's talk about that a moment, please?
Pinke Latte: I think communication is one of the most important things for good rp. :) I always like to ask before entering a scene so I know I'm not interrupting ... or if you have an awesome idea for a plot but never ask the person you want to rp with if they'd be up to it then it never happens.
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes! Let's take lawrence's solo rp last night. For some time Fifi has been trying to think about what to do next with her character. She is an Ainu. Well, after we both read his rp and talked a little about it. I told her our idea about his being attacked by a balrog ... Hi, Fifi :) I'm talking about you :)))
{Fifi arrives. Greetings}
AelKennyr Rhiano: Linfea {= Fifi} is a Wind of Manwe...no, no problem :))
Fifi Wickentower: the Keeper of the Ocean Winds to be precise :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: Once we started talking about lawrence's notecard and the idea about his being attacked by a balrog, we came up with a wonderful idea for Linfea to play out. right, fifi? Her idea does not hijack his rp...it adds to it...while giving her a great rp idea. Want to tell them about it, Fifi? AelKennyr Rhiano smiles winningly.
Fifi Wickentower: :) hmmm where to start . . oh yes. . .not into rp hijacking. poor Dometis {= lawrence = dragon} is attacked by a Balrog (shudders). this news is something that Manwe nust be apprised of
Shawn Daysleeper: oh good idea :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: nod nod nod
Fifi Wickentower: mainly Linfa Nensule (my character) has stayed out of all the dings with the Children
AelKennyr Rhiano: Manwe is Lord of the West and mightiest of the Valar
Fifi Wickentower: and he is the only one I answer to aside from Illuvatar
Pinke Latte has the wiki up to keep up with all the terms lol. :) learning slowly.
AelKennyr Rhiano smiles. I know it is a lot.
Fifi Wickentower: in the past she has brought news of Olwe's distress and 'saved' Elwing by accident when she fell from the sky . . she was one of the first to actually see the Nightshade Tears
AelKennyr Rhiano: oh yes, she was! So...the idea of Lawrence being attacked by a balrog creates some great rp ideas.
Fifi Wickentower: and there have been rumors of a balrog on the loose from other realms of middle earth
Shawn Daysleeper: nods
AelKennyr Rhiano: nod nod nod nod This fuels the rumor of the return of Melkor. Which all fear
Fifi Wickentower: reprts and rumors . . to have a dragon . .and the very interesting notion of a Good dragon is another anomily
AelKennyr Rhiano: nod nod nod
Fifi Wickentower: and sh collects these bits and bobs of informaton and whispers in Manwe's ear
Shawn Daysleeper: ye sounds great :)
Fifi Wickentower: mostly nothing much happens that is enough to engage her interest . .she moves back and forth across the Seas from Aman to Arda and has never sought to interfere or even have any dialogue with the Children or other residents
Pinke Latte: Are maiar and ainur the same thing? Um - sorry, sort of off-topic, but want to make sure I'm understanding fifi's character right.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Yes and no..there is some heated debate, but for our 4th Age and in the main, Ainur are both the Valar and Maia
Shawn Daysleeper: ainur are a broader class that includes maiar I believe, and valar
Fifi Wickentower: I am a Maia; yes that is correct shawn
Pinke Latte: Okay. I'll get all these straight eventually I promise. :) sounds like a very interesting plot though.
AelKennyr Rhiano: the Tolkien Discussion group meetings help alot
Fifi Wickentower: the entire thing is chrnicled in the blog. do you have the link? http://fellowshipfourthage.blogspot.com/
Shawn Daysleeper: I sent him the link for the dragons discussion we had in january
Pinke Latte: I've the discussion blog link and the rp blog link. :)
Fifi Wickentower: kk
Pinke Latte: Just lots to read on - slowly going through it all hehe.
Fifi Wickentower: it is a lot! nod nod
AelKennyr Rhiano: So, we see from another rper's one rp, comes a host of ideas... Fifi has a rp that can include Manwe, which she wants....Shawn wants a try at NPCing Manwe...And from what we discussed the other night, his attack is the prelude to your entrance in the rp, Pinke, and there will probably be others who will want to respond in rp to this situation.
Pinke Latte: Yes, my character is going to track Lawrence back to town I think. :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes!
Shawn Daysleeper: yes this has the potential to bring in a lot of characters
AelKennyr Rhiano: But every rp has that potential. And so if we focus only on ourselves, we will never see that potential.
Pinke Latte: Yes very exciting. :) Just have to reach out and initiate dialogue, or no one will know to participate.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Do not wait for an engraved invitation to get involved; take the plunge, put yourself and your character out there!
Fifi Wickentower: we thought to bring dragons in long ago and i just never quite worked . . . i'm glad to see new dragons!
AelKennyr Rhiano: Yes, we are very excited.
Shawn Daysleeper: me too :)
Pinke Latte: Most definitely. :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: We have one early, early rp with Belenos, who was rping a dragon.
Fifi Wickentower: yes
AelKennyr Rhiano: But then she had other sl committments, to her sims and stores and whie she remains an elder of the fellowship, she does not have time to rp much at all.
Pinke Latte: I have a question re: rping dragons in Tolkien after reading all the info Shawn linked me to last night, if that's okay?
AelKennyr Rhiano: This is the place for the questions ....smiles
Pinke Latte: Well I was reading and it seems that dragons are maia and immortal and to my knowledge are reincarnated after they die? Is it canon breaking to rp mine like a naive juvenile, then? I was contemplating this...I'm not sure if maia retain their memories or what.
AelKennyr Rhiano: Great queston.
Shawn Daysleeper: good question
AelKennyr Rhiano: First...remember we are living in the 4th Age...We are in a world that is centuries away from the genesis of those first dragons.
Fifi Wickentower: is that what we decided? I'm not sure that they are maier
Shawn Daysleeper: the only time I recall a maia being reborn is Gandalf
Fifi Wickentower: and he went through a 'change' a transformation
AelKennyr Rhiano: Gandalf was reborn, yes.
Shawn Daysleeper: ya but he seemed to remember what he did as the Grey
AelKennyr Rhiano: We debated a long time about the origins of the dragons.
Fifi Wickentower: i know :)
Shawn Daysleeper: ya it is just so unclear about the origin of dragons in Tolkien's universe
Pinke Latte: I enjoy the sort of childish curious personality I've thought up for my character, but I think...my main concern, coming in as an outsider...I don't want to ruin your guy's immersion and what have you. :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: and what transformations they may have gone through. If you remember, Melian fell in love with Elwe, Olwe's brother and the first leader of the Teleri.
Shawn Daysleeper: but I thought we did conclude they were ainur
Fifi Wickentower: i'm all for curious XD !LOL! ★ i thought we left it open
Shawn Daysleeper: aya me too
AelKennyr Rhiano: After they emerge together from staring at each other for years in the forest, they had children. Those chidren were mortal.
Shawn Daysleeper: Elwe and Melian ya
AelKennyr Rhiano: When we discussed, and Please, Fifi, and Shawn, correct me if I mis remember... We saw this as a case for the eventual transformation of dragons from Ainur to mortal beings over time. If they mated with mortal beings...
Fifi Wickentower: I had moved away from dragons as Ainur
AelKennyr Rhiano: they would, like Melian, produce mortal beings who were not Ainur.
Shawn Daysleeper: ya I believ you are correct Ael
AelKennyr Rhiano: but would retain special abilities and strengths because of that Ainur ancestry.
Pinke Latte: That makes sense.
AelKennyr Rhiano: This would explain the dragon's ability to fly , given how big you guys can get...the ability to breathe fire...live for centuries
Fifi Wickentower: they weren't part of the Great Song
AelKennyr Rhiano: no, like the dwarves and the beings created by Melkor they were not
Fifi Wickentower: and elves also live for centuries, and through ages
Shawn Daysleeper: not as it should have been, but Melkor sang them into existance with his discord
Fifi Wickentower: and they are hatched
AelKennyr Rhiano: yes, we do...but we were the First of the Children and closer to Ainur in our aspects than humans who came later
Fifi Wickentower: even genertions later of elves . . esch geneartion moves further from source
AelKennyr Rhiano: We talked much about how living near the Ainur affects the elves of Aman...how differently the elves of middle earth evolve
Fifi Wickentower: shrugs . .if melkor created the dragons then they are Not Ainur
AelKennyr Rhiano: actually...
Shawn Daysleeper: so the offspring of the Dragon fathers likely are not as strong as their parents, Tolkeinwise
Fifi Wickentower: let them specially created beings of their own strain :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: Melkor never "created" strictly speaking... He always "Twsited" or "corrupted". Remember?
Fifi Wickentower: figuratively speaking of course :D
Shawn Daysleeper: he caused discord, which marred things already created
Fifi Wickentower: yep
AelKennyr Rhiano: Right
Shawn Daysleeper: the dragons could then be marred ainur
AelKennyr Rhiano: and he did physically twist the bodies...orcs.. goblins
Fifi Wickentower: i don't feel them as ainur
AelKennyr Rhiano: We could easily have another Tolkien Discusion about dragons :)
Shawn Daysleeper: well, Pinke, i don't think we have a definate answer :)
Fifi Wickentower giggles
Pinke Latte: Hehe no but the discussion it spurred is interesting. :)
Fifi Wickentower: we do this a lot :)) round and round it goes!!
AelKennyr Rhiano: I don't think dragons ARE Ainur. But I could make a case where Melkor subverted lesser Ainur and that corruption gave rise to a race of beings who, in time, became dragons.
Pinke Latte: Oh better to be talkative than not. :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: oh, yes
Fifi Wickentower: one could do that if one wanted :DD
Shawn Daysleeper: the problem with Tolkien is he rarely seems to define anything, which is a little annoying to me
AelKennyr Rhiano: and really, since Tolkien didn't say, it is all speculation.
Shawn Daysleeper: but does make it interesting
Fifi Wickentower: i think i argued that point myself on one ocassion
AelKennyr Rhiano: I doubted he thought we would be sitting here decades later, picking his work apart.
Shawn Daysleeper: lol
Fifi Wickentower: smiles
Shawn Daysleeper: so if you are confused Pinke, you are not alone hehe
Fifi Wickentower: I am a rl member of the Speculation Sisters. we are rogues
AelKennyr Rhiano: Whatever the genesis of the dragon, dragons have offspring
Pinke Latte: I just wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking canon with my character. :) After I had read all that stuff on tolkien dragons. But it doesn't sound like it...maybe? Haha.
AelKennyr Rhiano: What a lot of people do not keep in mind is that the world, even a literary world, is not static.
Fifi Wickentower: XD !LOL! ★ but but but . . . . it says . . in writing!!!!!
Pinke Latte: Lol fifi.
AelKennyr Rhiano: If we stuck with only what was in Tolkien's work....then we are just playing out chapters in his books.
Shawn Daysleeper: right, everyone judges it differently based on their personal experiences
AelKennyr Rhiano: Races change over time...evolve, devolve. Die out..splinter off.
Fifi Wickentower: that's the beauty of the 4th age imo
AelKennyr Rhiano: I think so, fifi.
Fifi Wickentower: there are groups that adhere strictly to canon
Pinke Latte: Yes true enough. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't so far out of the box that I was going to make y'all facepalm or something. :P
Shawn Daysleeper: hehe
Fifi Wickentower: oh we will at some point no doubt
AelKennyr Rhiano: no, no, we would have say something before now...That is why we talk to people when they turn in their application.
Fifi Wickentower: and i like to stir the pot a bit to keep the bits from sticking on the bottom
AelKennyr Rhiano: She does!
Pinke Latte: Yes I would hope so Ael. :) I like to make myself open to discussion (obviously hehe).
Fifi Wickentower: nods happily
Pinke Latte: And lol fifi. :)
Shawn Daysleeper smiles
AelKennyr Rhiano: I don't even like the word "canon." It is often applied rigorously and rigidly to justify some small group or person's perception.
Fifi Wickentower: i came from the strict canon side . . .this is creative expression and we like to keep the 'play' in rp
AelKennyr Rhiano: I know a rp that they will only rp sections of the first 5 books of the Silmarillion.
Pinke Latte: Yes I have to say so far you all have been very friendly compared to many a sim I've tried to rp in in my time in SL. :) And that is always nice.
AelKennyr Rhiano: yay!
Fifi Wickentower: we are special grins
Shawn Daysleeper: awesome :)
AelKennyr Rhiano: She is.....!...ducks!
Shawn Daysleeper blushes
Fifi Wickentower: huh?
AelKennyr Rhiano: Well, to bring us back to topic. Does anyone have any questions, comments, thoughts on what we discussed tonight?
Fifi Wickentower: i must say I LOVE your dragon colors
Pinke Latte: Thanks!
AelKennyr Rhiano: nod nodnod
Shawn Daysleeper: this was a great discussion :)
AelKennyr Rhiano blushes
Fifi Wickentower: matches my jewels
Pinke Latte: Yes I agree Shawn.
Shawn Daysleeper smiles
AelKennyr Rhiano: This is a rough part for rpers. And so we can take our time and thoroughly discuss it. It's important.
Fifi Wickentower: we like to discuss
Shawn Daysleeper: yes
Pinke Latte: Oh yes that is so much better instead of tping into a sim and just seeing the same two dots on the map or group of people hiding away in a corner and feeling unable to break into the clicque. :) The open discussion is very nice.
Fifi Wickentower: snorts . . . .all too familiar with that one
Shawn Daysleeper: ya I am often standing in my home, usually because I am also doing classwork
Fifi Wickentower: we are selective, tho . . . we want a good fit for all
Shawn Daysleeper: feel free to say hi you are not bothering me
AelKennyr Rhiano: That is a very point, Pinke. It's natural that we all want to RP with our friends, but avoid being cliquish or exclusive toward new players or strangers. Make every effort to be inclusive and open
Pinke Latte: Yes indeed.
Fifi Wickentower: you may say hi to me too :) even tho I am a VERY BUSY AINU . . *preens and looks self-important
Pinke Latte: :P
AelKennyr Rhiano chuckles
Fifi Wickentower: ;)
Shawn Daysleeper: hehe
Odil Lumiere is Offline
AelKennyr Rhiano: Well, shall we continue this dicussion next week?
Fifi Wickentower: yes lets do
Shawn Daysleeper: sure :)